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From:
The Natural Philosopher (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:18
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:18
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 17:52, Java Jive wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>> I have been researching the subject over 10 years.
>> You? Ah. you read it in the NY times I guess.
>> In an article written by an Art Student
>
> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
So you know fuck all about engineering then.
Or computer modelling in the earth sciences
and I've
> been debunking for over 10 years your continuous lies about climate
> change, the EU, nuclear power, and various others of your endless
> bigotries as when they are endlessly recycled.
>
I think it was your claim back around 2010 that 'by 2020 the country
will be running entirely on renewable energy' that got me started into
wondering whether that was a realistic statement
I discovered that it was not, and then I wondered why that fact was not
being used to form policy, and that irrespective of CO2s effects on the
climate, renewable energy was a pointless way to attempt to reduce it.
I then wondered if as well as lying about renewable energy, people were
lying about climate too.
From being a complete believer in climate change in the 1990s I moved
to being utterly sceptical the more I learnt about the details of the so
called science,.
Unlike you, I kept an open mind and let the data, not the Guardian and
the BBC, form my worldview.
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 17:52, Java Jive wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>> I have been researching the subject over 10 years.
>> You? Ah. you read it in the NY times I guess.
>> In an article written by an Art Student
>
> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
So you know fuck all about engineering then.
Or computer modelling in the earth sciences
and I've
> been debunking for over 10 years your continuous lies about climate
> change, the EU, nuclear power, and various others of your endless
> bigotries as when they are endlessly recycled.
>
I think it was your claim back around 2010 that 'by 2020 the country
will be running entirely on renewable energy' that got me started into
wondering whether that was a realistic statement
I discovered that it was not, and then I wondered why that fact was not
being used to form policy, and that irrespective of CO2s effects on the
climate, renewable energy was a pointless way to attempt to reduce it.
I then wondered if as well as lying about renewable energy, people were
lying about climate too.
From being a complete believer in climate change in the 1990s I moved
to being utterly sceptical the more I learnt about the details of the so
called science,.
Unlike you, I kept an open mind and let the data, not the Guardian and
the BBC, form my worldview.
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
The Natural Philosopher (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:19
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:19
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>
> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>
>
ROFLMAO!
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>
> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>
>
ROFLMAO!
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
The Natural Philosopher (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:20
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:20
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 21:09, Java Jive wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>>
>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>>
>> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>
> Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
> would be "arse comparison"
>
No dear. its willy waving.
Cant even use google. Typical computer scientist.
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 21:09, Java Jive wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>>
>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>>
>> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>
> Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
> would be "arse comparison"
>
No dear. its willy waving.
Cant even use google. Typical computer scientist.
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
The Natural Philosopher (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:36
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:36
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 22:34, David Higton wrote:
> In message <sq5d5q$v6b$1@dont-email.me>
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 24/12/2021 20:08, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2021-12-24, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing, and I've
>>>> been debunking for over 10 years your continuous lies about climate
>>>> change, the EU, nuclear power, and various others of your endless
>>>> bigotries as when they are endlessly recycled.
>>>
>>> you noticed did you Why not just killfile him or ignore him. He likes
>>> the attention.
>>
>> Yes, it's a problem that, by answering, you encourage the troll, but I
>> think worse is that by not answering and not debunking his shit, it
>> remains around for ever as dog-shit for others to step in - at least
>> this way every lie is debunked, so the next thing that people read after
>> the lie is the debunking, and thus can avoid being misled by the lies.
>
> Since he lies about everything, it seems reasonable to assume he lied
> about the degree too - after all, there is no evidence that it has
> done any good to his thought processes.
>
There are people who know me who can confirm that and indeed my careers
in engineering and business.
Your attempts to ad hominen and cancel what I have to say by imputing
that I dont know what I am talking about are typical symptoms of those
who deny the truth about climate change and renewable energy - namely
that the first is 90% natural certainly not unprecedented and of no
great concern, and the second is a profitable scam.
But as I say, it doesn't matter. Having poured trillions into windmills
and locked the whole world down,. the rise in CO2 hasn't changed one
iota, and all that has happened is that the European and UK grids are in
danger of collapse and electricity prices are now 8 times what they were
20 years ago.
And Energiewende Germany is producing more CO2 per MWh than any other
nation in Europe.
*shrug*
The great thing that engineers understand, that pointy headed computer
scientists do not, is that there is a real world out there, with its own
rules, and by and large it will bite you in the bum if you do not
respect what its telling you.
In the European context, engineering analysis on a holistic basis along
with economic analysis shows that renewable energy will turn out to be
an economic and technical disaster.
You don't need to follow the detailed arguments, you just need to look
at te overall emissions of heavily renewable countries, the cost of
electricity across Europe, and the day ahead price spikes that show the
grids are exceeding full capacity on windless and sunless days..
Children are still knowing what snow is, polar bears are thriving, the
antarctic and many glaciers are increasing glaciation. No islands have
disappeared under the sea, and crop yields have never been higher.
If this is climate change, bring it on.
Sadly looking out of the window, this christmas is as cold and dismal as
all te other UK christmasses I can remember. Right back to te 1950s. The
only difference is towns are warmer, because everyone has central heating
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 22:34, David Higton wrote:
> In message <sq5d5q$v6b$1@dont-email.me>
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 24/12/2021 20:08, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2021-12-24, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing, and I've
>>>> been debunking for over 10 years your continuous lies about climate
>>>> change, the EU, nuclear power, and various others of your endless
>>>> bigotries as when they are endlessly recycled.
>>>
>>> you noticed did you
Why not just killfile him or ignore him. He likes
>>> the attention.
>>
>> Yes, it's a problem that, by answering, you encourage the troll, but I
>> think worse is that by not answering and not debunking his shit, it
>> remains around for ever as dog-shit for others to step in - at least
>> this way every lie is debunked, so the next thing that people read after
>> the lie is the debunking, and thus can avoid being misled by the lies.
>
> Since he lies about everything, it seems reasonable to assume he lied
> about the degree too - after all, there is no evidence that it has
> done any good to his thought processes.
>
There are people who know me who can confirm that and indeed my careers
in engineering and business.
Your attempts to ad hominen and cancel what I have to say by imputing
that I dont know what I am talking about are typical symptoms of those
who deny the truth about climate change and renewable energy - namely
that the first is 90% natural certainly not unprecedented and of no
great concern, and the second is a profitable scam.
But as I say, it doesn't matter. Having poured trillions into windmills
and locked the whole world down,. the rise in CO2 hasn't changed one
iota, and all that has happened is that the European and UK grids are in
danger of collapse and electricity prices are now 8 times what they were
20 years ago.
And Energiewende Germany is producing more CO2 per MWh than any other
nation in Europe.
*shrug*
The great thing that engineers understand, that pointy headed computer
scientists do not, is that there is a real world out there, with its own
rules, and by and large it will bite you in the bum if you do not
respect what its telling you.
In the European context, engineering analysis on a holistic basis along
with economic analysis shows that renewable energy will turn out to be
an economic and technical disaster.
You don't need to follow the detailed arguments, you just need to look
at te overall emissions of heavily renewable countries, the cost of
electricity across Europe, and the day ahead price spikes that show the
grids are exceeding full capacity on windless and sunless days..
Children are still knowing what snow is, polar bears are thriving, the
antarctic and many glaciers are increasing glaciation. No islands have
disappeared under the sea, and crop yields have never been higher.
If this is climate change, bring it on.
Sadly looking out of the window, this christmas is as cold and dismal as
all te other UK christmasses I can remember. Right back to te 1950s. The
only difference is towns are warmer, because everyone has central heating
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
The Natural Philosopher (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:38
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 09:38
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 17:54, Java Jive wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 08:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> On 23/12/2021 23:35, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/12/2021 19:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The people who will kill millions are the people who mandated
>>>> renewable energy.
>>>
>>> Again, where is your *EVIDENCE* in support of this claim?
>>
>> Its all there in the data and what is happening to Western grids and
>> in the spiralling electricity prices
>
> Still no *EVIDENCE* given, c'mon, where is it?
>
Not on today as its christmas
https://www.energylive.cloud/
>> I am not interested in convincing bigots. Time will show whether or
>> not what I claim has merit.
>
> Time is already showing that your bigoted claims above have no merit
> whatsoever.
>
so much hatred and ad hominems. Your renewable/climate denialism is strong
--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".
Marshall McLuhan
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 24/12/2021 17:54, Java Jive wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 08:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> On 23/12/2021 23:35, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/12/2021 19:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The people who will kill millions are the people who mandated
>>>> renewable energy.
>>>
>>> Again, where is your *EVIDENCE* in support of this claim?
>>
>> Its all there in the data and what is happening to Western grids and
>> in the spiralling electricity prices
>
> Still no *EVIDENCE* given, c'mon, where is it?
>
Not on today as its christmas
https://www.energylive.cloud/
>> I am not interested in convincing bigots. Time will show whether or
>> not what I claim has merit.
>
> Time is already showing that your bigoted claims above have no merit
> whatsoever.
>
so much hatred and ad hominems. Your renewable/climate denialism is strong
--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".
Marshall McLuhan
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:32
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:32
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:46, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/12/2021 23:20, Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I repeat where is your *EVIDENCE* that protests within the EU are
>>>> any more or less violent compared with ours.
>>>
>>> I told you. carefully concealed.
>>
>> In other words, there wasn't any, and you're just lying.
>>
> Illogical bigoted inference. How absolutely in character.
>
>
https://www.brusselstimes.com/brussels-2/194630/brussels-riots-aftermath-44-arre
sts-3-injured-officers-and-a-lot-of-damage
>
> But don't worry your pretty little head, its obviously fake news if you
> didn't read it in the Guardian.
It's not fake news merely just one example that on its own doesn't prove
anything either way, because there are at least as many
counter-examples, for example ...
Black Lives Matter latest news: UK protests turn violent
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11810842/black-lives-matter-latest-news-uk-protest
s-updates/
London Covid-19 protests turn violent | Daily Mail Online
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10323957/London-Covid-19-protests-turn-
violent.html
London protests: More than 100 arrests after violent clashes with police
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53037767
... etc, etc. So I repeat I repeat where is your *EVIDENCE* that
protests within the EU are any more or less violent compared with those
in the UK?
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:46, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/12/2021 23:20, Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I repeat where is your *EVIDENCE* that protests within the EU are
>>>> any more or less violent compared with ours.
>>>
>>> I told you. carefully concealed.
>>
>> In other words, there wasn't any, and you're just lying.
>>
> Illogical bigoted inference. How absolutely in character.
>
>
https://www.brusselstimes.com/brussels-2/194630/brussels-riots-aftermath-44-arre
sts-3-injured-officers-and-a-lot-of-damage
>
> But don't worry your pretty little head, its obviously fake news if you
> didn't read it in the Guardian.
It's not fake news merely just one example that on its own doesn't prove
anything either way, because there are at least as many
counter-examples, for example ...
Black Lives Matter latest news: UK protests turn violent
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11810842/black-lives-matter-latest-news-uk-protest
s-updates/
London Covid-19 protests turn violent | Daily Mail Online
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10323957/London-Covid-19-protests-turn-
violent.html
London protests: More than 100 arrests after violent clashes with police
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53037767
... etc, etc. So I repeat I repeat where is your *EVIDENCE* that
protests within the EU are any more or less violent compared with those
in the UK?
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:34
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:34
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:48, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> I'm the one who has been linking to facts here, you're the one
>> repeating baseless bigotry.
>
> No.
> I think I will leave it for others to judge that
Fine, others have already given their opinions, mostly seemingly against
you.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:48, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> I'm the one who has been linking to facts here, you're the one
>> repeating baseless bigotry.
>
> No.
> I think I will leave it for others to judge that
Fine, others have already given their opinions, mostly seemingly against
you.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:36
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:36
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 08:00, Jasen Betts wrote:
>
> On 2021-12-24, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
>>>
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>>>
>>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>>>
>>> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>>
>> Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
>> would be "arse comparison"
>
> "Schwanz" can also mean penis, so penis comparison
>
> As in "penis size war"
> https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100315230
Yes, I realised after I'd posted that perhaps a better translation would
have been 'willy-waving'! You have confirmed that
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 08:00, Jasen Betts wrote:
>
> On 2021-12-24, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
>>>
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>>>
>>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>>>
>>> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>>
>> Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
>> would be "arse comparison"
>
> "Schwanz" can also mean penis, so penis comparison
>
> As in "penis size war"
> https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100315230
Yes, I realised after I'd posted that perhaps a better translation would
have been 'willy-waving'! You have confirmed that
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:38
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 10:38
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 21:09, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
>>>
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>>>
>>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>>>
>>> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>>
>> Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
>> would be "arse comparison"
>>
> No dear. its willy waving.
You'd know all about that.
> Cant even use google. Typical computer scientist.
Google gave me 'tail comparison'.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 24/12/2021 21:09, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
>>>
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>>>
>>>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>>>
>>> In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
>>
>> Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
>> would be "arse comparison"
>>
> No dear. its willy waving.
You'd know all about that.
> Cant even use google. Typical computer scientist.
Google gave me 'tail comparison'.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 12:19
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 12:19
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 22:34, David Higton wrote:
>>
>> Since he lies about everything, it seems reasonable to assume he lied
>> about the degree too - after all, there is no evidence that it has
>> done any good to his thought processes.
>
> There are people who know me who can confirm that and indeed my careers
> in engineering and business.
>
> Your attempts to ad hominen and cancel what I have to say by imputing
> that I dont know what I am talking about are typical symptoms of those
> who deny the truth about climate change and renewable energy - namely
> that the first is 90% natural certainly not unprecedented and of no
> great concern, and the second is a profitable scam.
The first of the above is merely your usual dishonest denialism of
accepted scientific fact, for which as usual you give no *EVIDENCE*, the
second is clearly *FALSE* as the year on year increases in renewable
generation show:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy
> But as I say, it doesn't matter. Having poured trillions into windmills
> and locked the whole world down,. the rise in CO2 hasn't changed one
> iota,
FALSE! Graph entitled "Annual CO2 emissions from fossil fuels, by world
region" shows that India, Africa, N America, and Europe are all
producing less CO2 than they were, and that entitled "Annual percentage
change in CO2 emissions" shows that the rate of CO2 emissions are
falling. Of course we all know that's not enough, but it is the
beginning of a change for the better, and you are lying when you claim
it isn't happening:
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
> and all that has happened is that the European and UK grids are in
> danger of collapse
Where is your *EVIDENCE* for this claim?
> and electricity prices are now 8 times what they were
> 20 years ago.
FALSE! For example, in the UK, average business electricity costs are
3.5 times what they were in 2004, nothing like what you claim above ...
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/gas-and-electricity-prices-i
n-the-non-domestic-sector
... and in the US electricity prices are 62% higher than in 2001 ...
https://www.in2013dollars.com/Electricity/price-inflation/2001-to-2021?amount=10
0
... and still in the US energy prices have risen 83%, but this is still
and order of magnitude less than the 800% you claim
> And Energiewende Germany is producing more CO2 per MWh than any other
> nation in Europe.
As has been explained to you before, that is because, rightly or
wrongly, Germany is *NOT* using renewable energy to replace fossil fuel
energy, it is using renewal energy to replace nuclear energy. Some
might consider that a bad policy choice, but the point is that it is a
*policy* choice, nothing to do with the use of renewable energy per se.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/how-germany-generates-its-electricity
"Most obviously, the failure to reduce emissions reflects continued
reliance on coal generation"
In Germany, renewables have largely replaced nuclear plants, not, as in
the UK, coal plants or gas plants (bottom graph in first figure), and
that is the reason why emissions are not decreasing - they're
replacing one low carbon source by another. You and I may think that
ill-advised, but it's a direct result of their policy to de-nuclearise,
not the increased use of renewables.
> *shrug*
The response of someone with a lack of knowledge and understanding who
is too lazy to learn.
> You don't need to follow the detailed arguments, you just need to look
> at te overall emissions of heavily renewable countries, the cost of
> electricity across Europe, and the day ahead price spikes that show the
> grids are exceeding full capacity on windless and sunless days..
And, as shown above, when you do that, the conclusions to be drawn are
*NOT* the ones you attempted to claim above.
> Children are still knowing what snow is, polar bears are thriving,
FALSE! PROVEN LIE REPEATED YET AGAIN:
https://arcticwwf.org/newsroom/stories/polar-bear-assessment-brings-good-and-tro
ubling-news/
Note the map - while much of it is covered by grey-shaded areas
showing insufficient data, and quite a lot by blue-shaded areas where
the population is stable, the green-shaded geographical areas showing
increasing numbers are eclipsed in size by the red-shaded areas showing
decreasing numbers. Further down, after discussing two newly-assessed
populations found to be stable, there is the following quote:
"The number of polar bear subpopulations experiencing recent decreases
has gone from 1 to 4. In Canada, polar bears from Southern and Western
Hudson Bay as well as the Northern Beaufort Sea have all experienced a
fall in numbers. According to scientists, Southern Hudson Bay dropped by
17% and Western Hudson Bay dropped by 18% between 2011 and 2016."
> the
> antarctic and many glaciers are increasing glaciation.
FALSE! The red line denoting 2021 is exceeded only by two previous
outliers, 2007 & 2012, and is well beyond that average for recent decades:
https://earth.gsfc.nasa.gov/cryo/data/current-state-sea-ice-cover
> No islands have
> disappeared under the sea,
Go and live on Tuvalu ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvalu#Impact_of_climate_change
> and crop yields have never been higher.
... but not in areas affected by desertification ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification
> If this is climate change, bring it on.
It isn't, and you are a pathetically bigoted fool.
> Sadly looking out of the window, this christmas is as cold and dismal as
> all te other UK christmasses I can remember. Right back to te 1950s. The
> only difference is towns are warmer, because everyone has central heating
Actually, I don't, but that's an entirely different and irrelevant story.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 22:34, David Higton wrote:
>>
>> Since he lies about everything, it seems reasonable to assume he lied
>> about the degree too - after all, there is no evidence that it has
>> done any good to his thought processes.
>
> There are people who know me who can confirm that and indeed my careers
> in engineering and business.
>
> Your attempts to ad hominen and cancel what I have to say by imputing
> that I dont know what I am talking about are typical symptoms of those
> who deny the truth about climate change and renewable energy - namely
> that the first is 90% natural certainly not unprecedented and of no
> great concern, and the second is a profitable scam.
The first of the above is merely your usual dishonest denialism of
accepted scientific fact, for which as usual you give no *EVIDENCE*, the
second is clearly *FALSE* as the year on year increases in renewable
generation show:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy
> But as I say, it doesn't matter. Having poured trillions into windmills
> and locked the whole world down,. the rise in CO2 hasn't changed one
> iota,
FALSE! Graph entitled "Annual CO2 emissions from fossil fuels, by world
region" shows that India, Africa, N America, and Europe are all
producing less CO2 than they were, and that entitled "Annual percentage
change in CO2 emissions" shows that the rate of CO2 emissions are
falling. Of course we all know that's not enough, but it is the
beginning of a change for the better, and you are lying when you claim
it isn't happening:
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
> and all that has happened is that the European and UK grids are in
> danger of collapse
Where is your *EVIDENCE* for this claim?
> and electricity prices are now 8 times what they were
> 20 years ago.
FALSE! For example, in the UK, average business electricity costs are
3.5 times what they were in 2004, nothing like what you claim above ...
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/gas-and-electricity-prices-i
n-the-non-domestic-sector
... and in the US electricity prices are 62% higher than in 2001 ...
https://www.in2013dollars.com/Electricity/price-inflation/2001-to-2021?amount=10
0
... and still in the US energy prices have risen 83%, but this is still
and order of magnitude less than the 800% you claim
> And Energiewende Germany is producing more CO2 per MWh than any other
> nation in Europe.
As has been explained to you before, that is because, rightly or
wrongly, Germany is *NOT* using renewable energy to replace fossil fuel
energy, it is using renewal energy to replace nuclear energy. Some
might consider that a bad policy choice, but the point is that it is a
*policy* choice, nothing to do with the use of renewable energy per se.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/how-germany-generates-its-electricity
"Most obviously, the failure to reduce emissions reflects continued
reliance on coal generation"
In Germany, renewables have largely replaced nuclear plants, not, as in
the UK, coal plants or gas plants (bottom graph in first figure), and
that is the reason why emissions are not decreasing - they're
replacing one low carbon source by another. You and I may think that
ill-advised, but it's a direct result of their policy to de-nuclearise,
not the increased use of renewables.
> *shrug*
The response of someone with a lack of knowledge and understanding who
is too lazy to learn.
> You don't need to follow the detailed arguments, you just need to look
> at te overall emissions of heavily renewable countries, the cost of
> electricity across Europe, and the day ahead price spikes that show the
> grids are exceeding full capacity on windless and sunless days..
And, as shown above, when you do that, the conclusions to be drawn are
*NOT* the ones you attempted to claim above.
> Children are still knowing what snow is, polar bears are thriving,
FALSE! PROVEN LIE REPEATED YET AGAIN:
https://arcticwwf.org/newsroom/stories/polar-bear-assessment-brings-good-and-tro
ubling-news/
Note the map - while much of it is covered by grey-shaded areas
showing insufficient data, and quite a lot by blue-shaded areas where
the population is stable, the green-shaded geographical areas showing
increasing numbers are eclipsed in size by the red-shaded areas showing
decreasing numbers. Further down, after discussing two newly-assessed
populations found to be stable, there is the following quote:
"The number of polar bear subpopulations experiencing recent decreases
has gone from 1 to 4. In Canada, polar bears from Southern and Western
Hudson Bay as well as the Northern Beaufort Sea have all experienced a
fall in numbers. According to scientists, Southern Hudson Bay dropped by
17% and Western Hudson Bay dropped by 18% between 2011 and 2016."
> the
> antarctic and many glaciers are increasing glaciation.
FALSE! The red line denoting 2021 is exceeded only by two previous
outliers, 2007 & 2012, and is well beyond that average for recent decades:
https://earth.gsfc.nasa.gov/cryo/data/current-state-sea-ice-cover
> No islands have
> disappeared under the sea,
Go and live on Tuvalu ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvalu#Impact_of_climate_change
> and crop yields have never been higher.
... but not in areas affected by desertification ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification
> If this is climate change, bring it on.
It isn't, and you are a pathetically bigoted fool.
> Sadly looking out of the window, this christmas is as cold and dismal as
> all te other UK christmasses I can remember. Right back to te 1950s. The
> only difference is towns are warmer, because everyone has central heating
Actually, I don't, but that's an entirely different and irrelevant story.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 12:28
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 12:28
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:52, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>> I have been researching the subject over 10 years.
>>> You? Ah. you read it in the NY times I guess.
>>> In an article written by an Art Student
>>
>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>
> So you know fuck all about engineering then.
I seem to know enough about it to debunk your endless lies.
> Or computer modelling in the earth sciences
Ditto.
>> and I've
>> been debunking for over 10 years your continuous lies about climate
>> change, the EU, nuclear power, and various others of your endless
>> bigotries as when they are endlessly recycled.
>
> I think it was your claim back around 2010 that 'by 2020 the country
> will be running entirely on renewable energy' that got me started into
> wondering whether that was a realistic statement
Link to where I made that claim! I have no recollection of saying any
such thing, and don't believe I ever said it.
> From being a complete believer in climate change in the 1990s I moved
> to being utterly sceptical the more I learnt about the details of the so
> called science.
Probably coincided with about the time you started to read right-wing
propaganda trash such as B r e i t b a r t, certainly, as shown
above, your output reads like a vacuous regurgitation of such
unscientific crap.
> Unlike you, I kept an open mind and let the data, not the Guardian and
> the BBC, form my worldview.
No-one here has more of a closed mind than you, as evidenced that you
keep repeating the same lies that have been debunked already countless
times before.
When are you going to stop lying?
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:52, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
>>> I have been researching the subject over 10 years.
>>> You? Ah. you read it in the NY times I guess.
>>> In an article written by an Art Student
>>
>> I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
>
> So you know fuck all about engineering then.
I seem to know enough about it to debunk your endless lies.
> Or computer modelling in the earth sciences
Ditto.
>> and I've
>> been debunking for over 10 years your continuous lies about climate
>> change, the EU, nuclear power, and various others of your endless
>> bigotries as when they are endlessly recycled.
>
> I think it was your claim back around 2010 that 'by 2020 the country
> will be running entirely on renewable energy' that got me started into
> wondering whether that was a realistic statement
Link to where I made that claim! I have no recollection of saying any
such thing, and don't believe I ever said it.
> From being a complete believer in climate change in the 1990s I moved
> to being utterly sceptical the more I learnt about the details of the so
> called science.
Probably coincided with about the time you started to read right-wing
propaganda trash such as B r e i t b a r t, certainly, as shown
above, your output reads like a vacuous regurgitation of such
unscientific crap.
> Unlike you, I kept an open mind and let the data, not the Guardian and
> the BBC, form my worldview.
No-one here has more of a closed mind than you, as evidenced that you
keep repeating the same lies that have been debunked already countless
times before.
When are you going to stop lying?
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 12:30
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 12:30
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:54, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 08:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/12/2021 23:35, Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 23/12/2021 19:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The people who will kill millions are the people who mandated
>>>>> renewable energy.
>>>>
>>>> Again, where is your *EVIDENCE* in support of this claim?
>>>
>>> Its all there in the data and what is happening to Western grids and
>>> in the spiralling electricity prices
>>
>> Still no *EVIDENCE* given, c'mon, where is it?
>>
> Not on today as its christmas
>
> https://www.energylive.cloud/
There is no evidence there for the claim: "The people who will kill
millions are the people who mandated renewable energy."
>>> I am not interested in convincing bigots. Time will show whether or
>>> not what I claim has merit.
>>
>> Time is already showing that your bigoted claims above have no merit
>> whatsoever.
>
> so much hatred and ad hominems. Your renewable/climate denialism is strong
I merely pitch my level according to whom I'm addressing.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 09:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 24/12/2021 17:54, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 08:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/12/2021 23:35, Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 23/12/2021 19:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The people who will kill millions are the people who mandated
>>>>> renewable energy.
>>>>
>>>> Again, where is your *EVIDENCE* in support of this claim?
>>>
>>> Its all there in the data and what is happening to Western grids and
>>> in the spiralling electricity prices
>>
>> Still no *EVIDENCE* given, c'mon, where is it?
>>
> Not on today as its christmas
>
> https://www.energylive.cloud/
There is no evidence there for the claim: "The people who will kill
millions are the people who mandated renewable energy."
>>> I am not interested in convincing bigots. Time will show whether or
>>> not what I claim has merit.
>>
>> Time is already showing that your bigoted claims above have no merit
>> whatsoever.
>
> so much hatred and ad hominems. Your renewable/climate denialism is strong
I merely pitch my level according to whom I'm addressing.
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Jim Jackson (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 21:35
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 21:35
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk>
On 2021-12-25, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/12/2021 09:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 17:48, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm the one who has been linking to facts here, you're the one
>>> repeating baseless bigotry.
>>
>> No.
>> I think I will leave it for others to judge that
>
> Fine, others have already given their opinions, mostly seemingly against
> you.
>
+1
He never enters into a dialogue - it's always a rant. And as you have
discovered it is beneath him to actually quote real figures, or point to
real research. Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer. I suspect he's not
bright or savvy enough to be recruited to do that. He's not very
convincing is he?
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk>
On 2021-12-25, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/12/2021 09:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> On 24/12/2021 17:48, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm the one who has been linking to facts here, you're the one
>>> repeating baseless bigotry.
>>
>> No.
>> I think I will leave it for others to judge that
>
> Fine, others have already given their opinions, mostly seemingly against
> you.
>
+1
He never enters into a dialogue - it's always a rant. And as you have
discovered it is beneath him to actually quote real figures, or point to
real research. Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer. I suspect he's not
bright or savvy enough to be recruited to do that. He's not very
convincing is he?
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
David Higton (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 22:45
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sat, 25.12.21 22:45
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk>
In message <slrnssf3ld.3cg.jj@iridium.wf32df>
Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
> He's not very convincing is he?
Not at all convincing. He states so much that is completely at odds
with the observable facts.
David
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk>
In message <slrnssf3ld.3cg.jj@iridium.wf32df>
Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
> He's not very convincing is he?
Not at all convincing. He states so much that is completely at odds
with the observable facts.
David
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 12:37
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 12:37
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
>
> Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
> spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
> same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
Yes, there are clear links between smoking denialism, climate change
denialism, vaccine denialism, and the various forms of covid denialism,
be it the extreme that virus doesn't even exist, through the
recommendation and pushing of ineffective medications, to that masks
and/or lockdowns don't work.
Partly it's simply that if you're the sort of person who believes in one
conspiracy theory, by definition you're the sort of person who will
believe in another apparently unrelated one, because typically they
appeal to people with certain psychological weaknesses.
But it's also more insidious than that, the one conspiracy theory that
has some truth is that there is a conspiracy to propagate conspiracy
theories. Once the techniques of misinformation were learnt to
discredit the links between smoking and lung-cancer, it was but a small
step for the same techniques to be used to discredit global warming, and
then vaccines, covid-19, lockdowns, etc. Further the process works both
ways, there is now evidence that the same people who a few months ago at
the height of the pandemic were propagandising covid and lockdown
disinformation have now turned their attention back to climate change
denial, and are targetting the same groups of people that they
previously targetted with pandemic denialism with climate change denialism.
The BBC has a pretty good fact checking website, and have also produced
series of radio and some TV programmes debunking some of this weaponised
disinformation. Here are some BBC and other links for those who are
interested enough to explore further (I'm not sure how many of the BBC
links will be listenable outside of the UK; they are nearly all radio
links, which don't require a TV licence to hear in the UK, and usually
don't expire after a timeout period on their website, but these
attributes may be irrelevant to availability outside of the UK):
General conspiracy theory:
https://www.desmog.com/2020/08/10/how-uk-climate-science-deniers-turned-their-at
tention-coronavirus-covid-19/
The Misinformation Virus
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000c9sm
CrowdScience - Why do conspiracy theories exist?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszv5z
This excellent series explores the links between smoking denialism and
climate change denialism, even down to a level of detail of being able
to reveal the seating plan for a secret tobacco industry meeting
convened to weaponise denial of the links between smoking and lung cancer:
How They Made Us Doubt Everything
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7q1/episodes/player
The following Wikipedia page really needs to be read in its entirety,
and highlights the absurdity of the vast majority of the misinformation
claims about covid-19. As you do so, note how the claims vary from
country to country, being adapted to stoke the flames of each country's
public fears and paranoias ...
- A very great many locking in to pre-existing distrusts and hates
towards ethnic minorities, neighbouring countries with whom there is a
history of disputes, etc - for example, just two of many, some Indians
have used it to fuel anti-Muslim hate, some Arabic countries anti-Israel
hate, etc, etc.
- Certain governments have used it to blame or wage 'cold' war on
other governments they see as 'hostile', the most obvious example being
Trump's railing against China, but there is also China's railings
against Trump, and everywhere there is the shadow of Russia's attempts
to influence the populace and politics of other nations. An early quote
reads: "It has also been reportedly spread by covert operations backed
by states such as Saudi Arabia,[16] Russia and China to generate panic
and sow distrust in other countries." another "On 22 February, US
officials alleged that Russia is behind an ongoing disinformation
campaign, using thousands of social media accounts on Twitter, Facebook
and Instagram to deliberately promote unfounded conspiracy theories,
claiming the virus is a biological weapon manufactured by the CIA and
the US is waging economic war on China using the virus.", and links
given above to BBC investigations which have found that up to half of
all the bots found on some social media sites can be linked to Russia.
Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coro
navirus_pandemic
More recent work:
The Anti-Vax Files:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01kdgrn/episodes/player?page=3
The Denial Files (more links between covid and climate disinformation):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01kdgrn/episodes/player
These are links to old TV programmes, so availability is dependent on
when last shown on BBC TV and currently neither are available, but
they're worth watching, so worth adding to your 'favourites' in however
you choose programmes to watch or download.
Climate Change by Numbers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jsdrk
Climategate: Science of a Scandal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000b8p2
Lastly, for completeness' sake, the 'tsunami' of lies coming from Donald
Trump during the last election:
More Or Less - US election: facts or fiction
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct0py0
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
>
> Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
> spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
> same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
Yes, there are clear links between smoking denialism, climate change
denialism, vaccine denialism, and the various forms of covid denialism,
be it the extreme that virus doesn't even exist, through the
recommendation and pushing of ineffective medications, to that masks
and/or lockdowns don't work.
Partly it's simply that if you're the sort of person who believes in one
conspiracy theory, by definition you're the sort of person who will
believe in another apparently unrelated one, because typically they
appeal to people with certain psychological weaknesses.
But it's also more insidious than that, the one conspiracy theory that
has some truth is that there is a conspiracy to propagate conspiracy
theories. Once the techniques of misinformation were learnt to
discredit the links between smoking and lung-cancer, it was but a small
step for the same techniques to be used to discredit global warming, and
then vaccines, covid-19, lockdowns, etc. Further the process works both
ways, there is now evidence that the same people who a few months ago at
the height of the pandemic were propagandising covid and lockdown
disinformation have now turned their attention back to climate change
denial, and are targetting the same groups of people that they
previously targetted with pandemic denialism with climate change denialism.
The BBC has a pretty good fact checking website, and have also produced
series of radio and some TV programmes debunking some of this weaponised
disinformation. Here are some BBC and other links for those who are
interested enough to explore further (I'm not sure how many of the BBC
links will be listenable outside of the UK; they are nearly all radio
links, which don't require a TV licence to hear in the UK, and usually
don't expire after a timeout period on their website, but these
attributes may be irrelevant to availability outside of the UK):
General conspiracy theory:
https://www.desmog.com/2020/08/10/how-uk-climate-science-deniers-turned-their-at
tention-coronavirus-covid-19/
The Misinformation Virus
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000c9sm
CrowdScience - Why do conspiracy theories exist?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszv5z
This excellent series explores the links between smoking denialism and
climate change denialism, even down to a level of detail of being able
to reveal the seating plan for a secret tobacco industry meeting
convened to weaponise denial of the links between smoking and lung cancer:
How They Made Us Doubt Everything
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7q1/episodes/player
The following Wikipedia page really needs to be read in its entirety,
and highlights the absurdity of the vast majority of the misinformation
claims about covid-19. As you do so, note how the claims vary from
country to country, being adapted to stoke the flames of each country's
public fears and paranoias ...
- A very great many locking in to pre-existing distrusts and hates
towards ethnic minorities, neighbouring countries with whom there is a
history of disputes, etc - for example, just two of many, some Indians
have used it to fuel anti-Muslim hate, some Arabic countries anti-Israel
hate, etc, etc.
- Certain governments have used it to blame or wage 'cold' war on
other governments they see as 'hostile', the most obvious example being
Trump's railing against China, but there is also China's railings
against Trump, and everywhere there is the shadow of Russia's attempts
to influence the populace and politics of other nations. An early quote
reads: "It has also been reportedly spread by covert operations backed
by states such as Saudi Arabia,[16] Russia and China to generate panic
and sow distrust in other countries." another "On 22 February, US
officials alleged that Russia is behind an ongoing disinformation
campaign, using thousands of social media accounts on Twitter, Facebook
and Instagram to deliberately promote unfounded conspiracy theories,
claiming the virus is a biological weapon manufactured by the CIA and
the US is waging economic war on China using the virus.", and links
given above to BBC investigations which have found that up to half of
all the bots found on some social media sites can be linked to Russia.
Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coro
navirus_pandemic
More recent work:
The Anti-Vax Files:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01kdgrn/episodes/player?page=3
The Denial Files (more links between covid and climate disinformation):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01kdgrn/episodes/player
These are links to old TV programmes, so availability is dependent on
when last shown on BBC TV and currently neither are available, but
they're worth watching, so worth adding to your 'favourites' in however
you choose programmes to watch or download.
Climate Change by Numbers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jsdrk
Climategate: Science of a Scandal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000b8p2
Lastly, for completeness' sake, the 'tsunami' of lies coming from Donald
Trump during the last election:
More Or Less - US election: facts or fiction
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct0py0
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
The Natural Philosopher (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 14:32
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 14:32
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 26/12/2021 12:37, Java Jive wrote:
> On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
>> spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
>> same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
What a fabulous conspiracy theory.
Qu s'excuse, s'accuse.
(snip conspiracy theory: followups to alt.foklore)
Oh and a plonk.
--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.
Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
On 26/12/2021 12:37, Java Jive wrote:
> On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
>> spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
>> same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
What a fabulous conspiracy theory.
Qu s'excuse, s'accuse.
(snip conspiracy theory: followups to alt.foklore)
Oh and a plonk.
--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.
Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
Java Jive (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 15:42
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 15:42
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 26/12/2021 14:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 26/12/2021 12:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
>>> spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
>>> same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
>
> What a fabulous conspiracy theory.
We notice that you deliberately snipped all the evidence, proving yet
again that there's none so blind as *WILL* not see!
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
On 26/12/2021 14:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> On 26/12/2021 12:37, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course there are schills out there actually paid to
>>> spread FUD over climate change - like there were people paid to do the
>>> same to discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
>
> What a fabulous conspiracy theory.
We notice that you deliberately snipped all the evidence, proving yet
again that there's none so blind as *WILL* not see!
--
Fake news kills!
I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
David Higton (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 21:33
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 21:33
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk>
In message <sqa2hb$8so$1@dont-email.me>
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/12/2021 14:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >
> > On 26/12/2021 12:37, Java Jive wrote:
> > >
> > > On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Of course there are schills out there actually paid to spread FUD
> > > > over climate change - like there were people paid to do the same to
> > > > discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
> >
> > What a fabulous conspiracy theory.
>
> We notice that you deliberately snipped all the evidence, proving yet
> again that there's none so blind as *WILL* not see!
I couldn't even understand what he meant.
David
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk>
In message <sqa2hb$8so$1@dont-email.me>
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/12/2021 14:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >
> > On 26/12/2021 12:37, Java Jive wrote:
> > >
> > > On 25/12/2021 21:35, Jim Jackson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Of course there are schills out there actually paid to spread FUD
> > > > over climate change - like there were people paid to do the same to
> > > > discredit the link of smoking to cancer.
> >
> > What a fabulous conspiracy theory.
>
> We notice that you deliberately snipped all the evidence, proving yet
> again that there's none so blind as *WILL* not see!
I couldn't even understand what he meant.
David
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
TimS (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 22:38
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 22:38
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net>
On 23 Dec 2021 at 19:00:10 GMT, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> ant-vax lies. The anti-renewable-energy lot (it's difficult to
> accept that people really can be so stupid as to claim that renewable
> energy doesn't/can't work, given the huge numbers of examples of it
> working, now, in the real world) ...
Sure it works, for some value of "works". Here in the UK we just had a week
when our 11,000 wind turbines could only produce 3% of our electricity
requirement, and solar produced zero. Why? Because of a blocking high pressure
area - this happens a couple of times each winter, giving a period when the
gas powered power stations plus nuclear have to pretty much produce all the
rest. And no one has a credible plan as to how to replace the gas component.
--
Tim
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net>
On 23 Dec 2021 at 19:00:10 GMT, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> ant-vax lies. The anti-renewable-energy lot (it's difficult to
> accept that people really can be so stupid as to claim that renewable
> energy doesn't/can't work, given the huge numbers of examples of it
> working, now, in the real world) ...
Sure it works, for some value of "works". Here in the UK we just had a week
when our 11,000 wind turbines could only produce 3% of our electricity
requirement, and solar produced zero. Why? Because of a blocking high pressure
area - this happens a couple of times each winter, giving a period when the
gas powered power stations plus nuclear have to pretty much produce all the
rest. And no one has a credible plan as to how to replace the gas component.
--
Tim
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From:
TimS (2:221/10)
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 22:40
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
To: All
Date: Sun, 26.12.21 22:40
Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
XPost: alt.os.linux, talk.politics.misc
From: TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net>
On 23 Dec 2021 at 23:38:40 GMT, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/12/2021 22:27, David Higton wrote:
>>
>> I now see that you are nothing but a troll,
>
> ... most decidedly ...
>
>> and without the understanding
>> of engineering that you claim.
>
> He is reputed to have had some at one time, but I've never seen the
> slightest evidence of it in any of his posts, which are clearly from a
> bigoted fool who's senility is becoming all too obvious to ignore.
~~~~~~~
whose.
Do try to write correct English.
--
Tim
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
From: TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net>
On 23 Dec 2021 at 23:38:40 GMT, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/12/2021 22:27, David Higton wrote:
>>
>> I now see that you are nothing but a troll,
>
> ... most decidedly ...
>
>> and without the understanding
>> of engineering that you claim.
>
> He is reputed to have had some at one time, but I've never seen the
> slightest evidence of it in any of his posts, which are clearly from a
> bigoted fool who's senility is becoming all too obvious to ignore.
~~~~~~~
whose.
Do try to write correct English.
--
Tim
---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - the fidonet nntp junction (2:221/10)
