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From: Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
To: All
Date: Fri, 11.06.21 14:10
Changing Zones
Hello Everybody,

Michiel van der Vlist has a neato idea that would make Janis Kracht
very, very happy -

"I may add that The UK, or what will be left of it in the near future
has been drifting west for a couple of decades already. So maybe net
250 should be moved to Z1 anyway..."

Whattaya think, Janis?

If that is not a gift horse, I do not know what is.
Better take it now before the Flying Dutchman changes his mind.

Question is, what will Z2 get in return?

If I may make a suggestion, returning Louisiana to France (which
sold us off not once, but twice) would be a nice gesture to show your
appreciation ...

--Lee

--
Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!
--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Fri, 11.06.21 09:10
Re: Changing Zones
-=> Lee Lofaso wrote to All <=-


LL> "I may add that The UK, or what will be left of it in the near future
LL> has been drifting west for a couple of decades already. So maybe net
LL> 250 should be moved to Z1 anyway..."

I say, collapse all of the zones into one zone. We're small enough, we're
using IP for most message traffic and don't need a zone structure.

Fidonet, properly structured, would make an active Othernet.


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 13.06.21 11:05
Re: Changing Zones
CN>KW> I say, collapse all of the zones into one zone. We're small enough,
CN>KW> we're using IP for most message traffic and don't need a zone
CN>KW> structure.

CN> I agree... as long as zone 2 is the chosen one. };-)

Kurt will not like that.

But the thing is, bumping everything into one zone will break so much that it
probably would kill the network.

CN> I don't think that changing the nodelist structure would make Fidonet
CN> echomail more active, rather the contrary.

Correct.

Those suggestions over the years from people to bump all the zones together
happen just because they haven't given it a second thought, and in some cases
probably not even a first thought either.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jun 02 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

From: Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464)
To: All
Date: Sun, 13.06.21 13:45
Re: Changing Zones
Hi Kurt,

On 2021-06-11 07:10:00, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

KW> I say, collapse all of the zones into one zone. We're small enough,
KW> we're using IP for most message traffic and don't need a zone
KW> structure.

Could the sysops in Z1 live under, for instance, a Russion ZC?

Bye, Wilfred.
--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 13.06.21 19:20
Re: Changing Zones
BF> WvV> Could the sysops in Z1 live under, for instance, a Russion ZC?

BF> Remember that there are 74 million Trumpsters in USA alone... Cool

That's 1% of the world's population ...

--- DB4 - Jun 02 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Sun, 13.06.21 10:31
Re: Changing Zones
-=> Carlos Navarro wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

KW> I say, collapse all of the zones into one zone. We're small enough,
KW> we're using IP for most message traffic and don't need a zone
KW> structure.

CN> I agree... as long as zone 2 is the chosen one. };-)

Of course... Smile

Even said in jest, that sentiment is exactly why it wouldn't work.

KW> Fidonet, properly structured, would make an active Othernet.

CN> I don't think that changing the nodelist structure would make Fidonet
CN> echomail more active, rather the contrary.

No, but removing the dead echoes and consolidating others would increase the
ratio of messages to echoes. But, that's a thought for another day.
... Where are we now?
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Sun, 13.06.21 10:32
Re: Changing Zones
-=> Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

WvV> Could the sysops in Z1 live under, for instance, a Russion ZC?

As long as he/she followed the rules as set forth by the body of sysops.


... Where are we now?
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

From: Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464)
To: All
Date: Sun, 13.06.21 22:35
Re: Changing Zones
Hi Kurt,

On 2021-06-13 08:32:00, you wrote to me:

WvV>> Could the sysops in Z1 live under, for instance, a Russion ZC?

KW> As long as he/she followed the rules as set forth by the body of sysops.

Yeah, dream on... ;-)

Bye, Wilfred.
--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Mon, 14.06.21 13:44
Re: Changing Zones
KW> WvV> Could the sysops in Z1 live under, for instance, a Russion ZC?

KW> As long as he/she followed the rules as set forth by the body of sysops.

You do realize, I hope, that the majority of sysops 'are' Russian ... ? Smile

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jun 02 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Mon, 14.06.21 13:44
Re: Changing Zones
LL> Continuing the same structure at present is Fidonet suicide.

Still no nodenumber I see?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jun 02 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Mon, 14.06.21 09:16
Re: Changing Zones
-=> Ward Dossche wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

KW> WvV> Could the sysops in Z1 live under, for instance, a Russion ZC?

KW> As long as he/she followed the rules as set forth by the body of sysops.

WD> You do realize, I hope, that the majority of sysops 'are' Russian ... ?
WD> Smile

I don't care what nationality the ZC is, as long as there's some semblance
of rules followed. At the end of the day, this is just a hobby.


... Accept advice
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Tue, 15.06.21 01:03
Re: Changing Zones
Flavio,

FB> I don't see the hindrance that you mentioned.

FB> What would be the biggest benefit?

Don't feed the troll...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jun 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

From: Nigel Reed (1:124/5016)
To: All
Date: Tue, 15.06.21 19:17
Re: Changing Zones
Lee wrote:
> If I may make a suggestion, returning Louisiana to France (which
> sold us off not once, but twice) would be a nice gesture to show your
> appreciation ...

You'll also have to take Kansas and Nebraska if you want Louisiana.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

From: Nigel Reed (1:124/5016)
To: All
Date: Tue, 15.06.21 19:20
Re: Changing Zones
Lee wrote:
> Hello Ward,
>
> KW>>> I say, collapse all of the zones into one zone. We're small enough,
> KW>>> we're using IP for most message traffic and don't need a zone
> KW>>> structure.
>
> CN>> I agree... as long as zone 2 is the chosen one. };-)
>
> WD> Kurt will not like that.
>
> Fidonet, properly structured, will be a welcome change. Not only for
> Kurt, but also for most sysops in Fidonet. Not so much by a infinitely
> small number of sysops, who will not be named. But like somebody said
> a long time ago, you can't please everybody.

I have a feeling that most sysops don't really care as long as echomail and
netmail flows. The main problem faced by most sysops is a lack of users.

Fidonet is pretty much set it and forget it if you do it properly. Personally,
I don't care if there's 1 zone or 6 zones. I do care that my netmail will
reach Inner Mongolia Smile
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

From: Anna Christina Nass (2:240/5824.1)
To: All
Date: Wed, 16.06.21 11:01
Re: Changing Zones
Am 15.06.21 schrieb Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 in FIDONEWS:

Hallo Lee,

LL> You see, the way it worked in the beginning was really simple.
LL> First there was node number 1. Then there was node number 2 ...

Then, why are networks/regions neccessary?
Let's just only count the nodes by number.
It will make routing very easy.
Also the usage of othernets.

Regards,
Anna
--- OpenXP 5.0.50
* Origin: Imzadi Box Point (2:240/5824.1)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Wed, 16.06.21 08:51
Re: Changing Zones
-=> Carlos Navarro wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

CN>> I agree... as long as zone 2 is the chosen one. };-)

KW> Of course... Smile

KW> Even said in jest, that sentiment is exactly why it wouldn't work.

CN> I was joking, of course.

CN> What sentiment you mean?

The last time I brought this up, the debate didn't get past whether to use
Zone 1 or Zone 2 as the number of Fidonet's zone in a unified structure.

CN> Ok, so you agree that merging/changing zones is not -currently- a good
CN> idea.

On the contrary, but I'm being naive. Removing the zone structure wouldn't
remove long-standing geographic feuds, which gets tiresome. Those feuds
would continue unabated.

CN> As for the echos -- maybe, as long as /consolidating/ does not mean
CN> renaming active echos... };-)

I'm also concerned that there are Fido BBSes running on auto-pilot. I could
envision making a zone or echolist change that would require a change to the
BBSes, and having a fraction of the current BBSes drop off, or the sysop
pull the plug because it was fine running as-is but didn't merit putting any
time into the BBS.

CN> If I now had a BBS (or another kind of user-interface) I would probably
CN> "hide" to users the dead echos, giving better visibility to those that
CN> are more or less active.

I do that now, but it requires work to look through posts in the STATS echo
to see if an echo that I didn't have visible picked up in traffic. It'd be
easier and less apt to miss message traffic to have fewer echoes available
on many systems.


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Wed, 16.06.21 09:36
Re: Changing Zones
-=> David Drummond wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

DD> Since you first became node listed how many netmails have you had the
DD> urge to send to Inner Mongolia?

Part of what compelled me to join Fidonet back in 1992 was being able to
route email around the world on a hobbyist network run by dedicated
volunteers using nothing more than DOS boxes with dial-up modems.

That I could turn the same hardware that ran a single-user desktop
environment for me into a community system that could reach Inner Mongolia
with a phone call was pretty heady stuff, indeed.

I'd like to find a hobby nowadays that provided that same sense of wonder.
Until then, a network of crappy, cast-off boxes connecting people around the
world is still pretty nifty.


... No appropriate tagline.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 20.06.21 13:05
Re: Changing Zones
O> ACN> Then, why are networks/regions neccessary?

O> for the dumbfucks to rule over their little digital kingdom. fidonet was
O> always about status and power and was killed by it ...

Power? ?? ???

Which power? 220V?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jun 14 2021
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

From: Nigel Reed (1:124/5016)
To: All
Date: Sun, 20.06.21 09:57
Re: Changing Zones
David wrote:
> On 16/06/2021 08:20, 1124/5016 wrote:
>
> NR> I have a feeling that most sysops don't really care as long as echomail
and
> NR> netmail flows. The main problem faced by most sysops is a lack of users.
>
> NR> Fidonet is pretty much set it and forget it if you do it properly.
> NR> Personally, I don't care if there's 1 zone or 6 zones. I do care that my
netmail will
> NR> reach Inner Mongolia Smile
>
> Since you first became node listed how many netmails have you had the urge to
send to Inner Mongolia?

The urge is always there, the lack of destination hampers any attempt,
however.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

From: Kurt Weiske (1:218/700)
To: All
Date: Sat, 19.06.21 09:32
Re: Changing Zones
-=> Carlos Navarro wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

CN> Can you remember when and in what echo was this discussed? I'd like to
CN> read that if I can find it somewhere.

It might have been this one.

CN>> Ok, so you agree that merging/changing zones is not -currently- a
CN>> good idea.

No, I think it's a good idea, but I think it's an uphill battle to
implement.

I'd like to see a Fidonet with active nodes, a simpler structure reflective
of the smaller size and lack of need for dialup to move packets and an
echolist where dead echoes are dropped or consolidated into other echoes to
create fewer echoes with more message traffic.

KW> On the contrary, but I'm being naive. Removing the zone structure
KW> wouldn't remove long-standing geographic feuds, which gets tiresome.
KW> Those feuds would continue unabated.

CN> I thought that was a thing of the past. AFAIK we don't have those in
CN> zone 2 (though I don't know for sure).

There's still a lot of sniping between zones, maybe not so much within
zones.







CN> But back to your zone merge suggestion. What would be gain from that
CN> change, other than having only one ZC? (be it Belgian, Canadian,
CN> Russian or whatever...Wink

CN> Carlos
CN> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
CN> * Origin: Costa Blanca, Spain (2:341/234.1)

... Where are we? When are we? Is this now?
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

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