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From: Sam Berger (1:396/4)
To: All
Date: Tue, 25.05.21 01:35
Re: AR3a vs. JBL-100
From: Sam Berger <samberger0357@gmail.com>

On Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, tom_ty...@my-deja.com wrote:
> myan...@aol.com (MYanchick) wrote:
> >
> > Yes it is a relative thing, therefore the only situation in
> which the 3a
> > would prove to have wider dynamics would be when listening to a
> signal
> > generator, pipe organ music, rap, or some weird synthesizer music.
> Most music
> > doesn't contain much information below 50hz relative to the mid-bass,
> midrange
> > and highs. Also speakers that go down very low don't necessarily play
> loud at
> > low frequencies, they bottom out.
> Mike,
> If you listen to any music today, be it classical, jazz, pop or
> whatever, you will quickly find that there are many, many recordings
> that contain a great deal of information below 50 Hz. Granted, some
> pop recordings don't contain much information below 50 Hz., but many
> others do have lot's of energy down to the 30-40 Hz. range. There can
> be no question that many classical recordings have information not only
> to the 40-Hz. range (typical bass drum fundamental), but all the way
> down to 18 Hz. and below (organ recordings and some up-close recorded
> Steinway Concert D piano recordings). Jazz and New Age, etc., are full
> of powerful deep-bass recordings. A good example is Russ Freeman's
> Rippington's *Topaz* recording. Try "Snakedance" and tell me about low
> frequency. I could probably drum up 50 other good examples. I also
> hasten to add that these are digital recordings I am referring to, not
> analog or LP recordings, which typically compress some of the extreme
> deep-bass information on some recordings.
> There is no basis in fact for your statement about speakers that go low
> can't play loud; they bottom out. Where did you get this notion? In
> truth, an AR-3a -- which is acoustic suspension -- is much better
> protected against "bottoming" out than the L-100 which becomes unloaded
> at subsonic frequencies due to its bass-reflex design, yet the AR-3a
> can go much lower in frequency than the L100. In fact, the AR-3a can
> play much louder at 20, 30 or 40 Hz. than the L100 because it is
> capable of reproducing the fundamental frequency without gross
> distortion. This is not a criticism of the L100 specifically: it was
> not designed to reproduce the lowest frequencies to begin with. It is
> more of a midrange/prescence-sort-of design, and it is superb as a
> studio monitor for that reason. But the L100 is no match for an AR-3a
> at low frequencies. By the same token, the AR-3a is no match for the
> L100 at mid frequencies in terms of SPL output.
> > To be honest you can buy some cheap $300 speaker by NHT or
> Paradigm today
> > and it would be more transparent and accurate than the 3a or the
> L100. Modern
> > speakers the size of an L100 that will play loud and clean like the
> L100 are
> > few and far between though.
> > Mike
> You might find some "cheap $300 speaker by NHT or Paradigm today" that
> is brighter sounding than the AR-3a, and perhaps better on-axis output
> at the highest frequencies than the AR-3a, but that's where it would
> end. They would never match the AR-3a in power response, overall
> flatness and power bandwidth.
> Don't get me wrong. The L100 is a fine speaker -- I have a pair -- but
> this speaker system was designed with a different goal in mind than the
> AR-3a. It is brighter, more "up front" sounding than the AR-3a, but
> lacks the overall smoothness, accuracy and extension of the AR-3a
> --Tom Tyson
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

I love them both and use both ever day with McIntosh amp. The L100's with a
MC2300, and the AR3's with a MC2105. The AR3's have been completely restored,
the L100's are stock. Both sound great.
--- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
* Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)

From: Peter Wieck (1:396/4)
To: All
Date: Tue, 25.05.21 16:37
Re: AR3a vs. JBL-100
From: Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com>

> I love them both and use both ever day with McIntosh amp. The L100's with=
a MC2300, and the AR3's with a MC2105. The AR3's have been completely rest=
ored, the L100's are stock. Both sound great.

Nice to see a response after nearly 22 years. But, with that in mind, I jus=
t finished restoring a pair of 3as last Sunday. Of the six caps, two teste=
d at 250% of value (marked 10% tolerance), one was open, and two were fine.=
Fine or not, they were replaced. Some things to note:

There were three cap manufacturers represented: Royal, Sprague and Chicago =
Cap. Every cap had an AR part number on it - and both the Sprague and Royal=
caps shared the same number for the 150 uF cap. And Sprague, Royal and Chi=
cago shared the correct numbers for the others. So, over the years, AR clea=
rly used multiple suppliers. The two speakers were very close in serial num=
ber - but the internal configurations were quite different. One had the bac=
k-wired tweeter, the other had the front-wired tweeter. One used clear (whi=
te) elephant-snot glue, the other black. One had solid wood braces internal=
ly, the other particle-board. But they both sounded fine after the work.

I did not replace the pots.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274797772950?chn
ps&norover
1&mkevt
1&mkrid=

711-117182-37290

These (and why I deliberately linked to eBay - hurry up, guys and gals befo=
re I jump on a spare) are the best cleaning tools for electronic purposes t=
hat I know. There are various inserts from 'kiss a soap bubble' to 'peel ch=
rome from a trailer-hitch'. The marl is non-conductive, and it can fit into=
tight spaces. I used mine to clean the pots after disassembly and they wor=
k just fine.

As to the JBL100 - to me, it is an indifferent-sounding speaker as compared=
to the AR, an excellent example of the California Sound and very well-made=
(for a mass-production speaker). But I do not find it as compelling as the=
AR - the very nearly perfect example of the Boston Sound.

Superficial definitions:
California Sound: Emphasis on the highs and the lows - with specific leani=
ng towards the lows (e.g. Cerwin-Vega). with the mid-range being somewhat n=
eglected. Somewhat more brighter than not.
Boston Sound: Almost painfully flat across the entire range. So relatively=
merciless.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
--- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
* Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)

From: Sam Berger (1:396/4)
To: All
Date: Tue, 25.05.21 18:58
Re: AR3a vs. JBL-100
From: Sam Berger <samberger0357@gmail.com>

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 5:37:33 AM UTC-7, Peter Wieck wrote:
> > I love them both and use both ever day with McIntosh amp. The L100's wi=
th a MC2300, and the AR3's with a MC2105. The AR3's have been completely re=
stored, the L100's are stock. Both sound great.
> Nice to see a response after nearly 22 years. But, with that in mind, I j=
ust finished restoring a pair of 3as last Sunday. Of the six caps, two test=
ed at 250% of value (marked 10% tolerance), one was open, and two were fine=
.. Fine or not, they were replaced. Some things to note:
>
> There were three cap manufacturers represented: Royal, Sprague and Chicag=
o Cap. Every cap had an AR part number on it - and both the Sprague and Roy=
al caps shared the same number for the 150 uF cap. And Sprague, Royal and C=
hicago shared the correct numbers for the others. So, over the years, AR cl=
early used multiple suppliers. The two speakers were very close in serial n=
umber - but the internal configurations were quite different. One had the b=
ack-wired tweeter, the other had the front-wired tweeter. One used clear (w=
hite) elephant-snot glue, the other black. One had solid wood braces intern=
ally, the other particle-board. But they both sounded fine after the work.=

>
> I did not replace the pots.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/274797772950?chn
ps&norover
1&mkevt
1&mkri=
d
711-117182-37290
>
> These (and why I deliberately linked to eBay - hurry up, guys and gals be=
fore I jump on a spare) are the best cleaning tools for electronic purposes=
that I know. There are various inserts from 'kiss a soap bubble' to 'peel =
chrome from a trailer-hitch'. The marl is non-conductive, and it can fit in=
to tight spaces. I used mine to clean the pots after disassembly and they w=
ork just fine.
>
> As to the JBL100 - to me, it is an indifferent-sounding speaker as compar=
ed to the AR, an excellent example of the California Sound and very well-ma=
de (for a mass-production speaker). But I do not find it as compelling as t
he AR - the very nearly perfect example of the Boston Sound.
>
> Superficial definitions:
> California Sound: Emphasis on the highs and the lows - with specific lean=
ing towards the lows (e.g. Cerwin-Vega). with the mid-range being somewhat =
neglected. Somewhat more brighter than not.
> Boston Sound: Almost painfully flat across the entire range. So relativel=
y merciless.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

I've always laughed at the generalizations made across the board with audio=
products, such as the two you have noted. You're right, they're superficia=
l, and meaningless. I remember people telling me that the L100's are great =
for rock but lousy for jazz. Or the AR3's/3a's were perfect for classical a=
nd acoustic music but not appropriate if you wanted to rock out. Hardly eve=
r would they explain why, or how they came to this conclusion, or what gear=
they had when they came to them. Further, I found out after the fact that=
many times these conclusions came from those who hadn't even heard the spe=
akers, never mind hearing them on inadequate gear. They were simply passing=
on what they had heard. Luckily that was early on in my listening journey =
and it taught me the valuable lesson to always trust my own ears and go wit=
h what I like, and if I was to take the advice of somebody else, make it so=
mebody who has either never steered me wrong and therefore had credibility,=
or at least provided details of their listening experience so that I had s=
ome context of what went into their thoughts.

Suffice to say that I enjoy all kinds of music on both speakers. If I had t=
o pick only one pair to own it would be the L100's. My tastes lean towards =
their sound a tiny bit more then the 3's, and because of this and their eff=
iciency, which allows me to enjoy them with a wider range of amplification=
then the 3's, I would choose them. But I adore my 3's(probably having been=
born and raised in the Boston area in the 60's/70's has something to do wi=
th that....Wink and unless forced into that uncomfortable decision of choosing=
one pair I will never let them go. Having the ability to easily switch bet=
ween the two speakers is wonderful.
--- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
* Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)

From: Peter Wieck (1:396/4)
To: All
Date: Tue, 25.05.21 22:57
Re: AR3a vs. JBL-100
From: Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com>

I have always had brute-force amplifiers such as the Citation 16, or 19, or=
back in the day (and still today) AR electronics. So efficiency has never =
really been an issue - the main speakers are Maggies after all, and in quit=
e a large room. The single pair of JBL 100s I have heard - and not in my ve=
nue - set my teeth on edge. The AR3as in the that same venue did not.

I am glad that you enjoy both sets of speakers, nor am I suggesting that JB=
L speakers are "bad". Nor do I disagree with you on any one speaker is any =
more suitable for any given type of music than any other. But the JBLs are =
not to my taste.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
--- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
* Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)

From: Sam Berger (1:396/4)
To: All
Date: Tue, 25.05.21 23:06
Re: AR3a vs. JBL-100
From: Sam Berger <samberger0357@gmail.com>

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 11:57:06 AM UTC-7, Peter Wieck wrote:
> I have always had brute-force amplifiers such as the Citation 16, or 19, =
or back in the day (and still today) AR electronics. So efficiency has neve=
r really been an issue - the main speakers are Maggies after all, and in qu=
ite a large room. The single pair of JBL 100s I have heard - and not in my =
venue - set my teeth on edge. The AR3as in the that same venue did not.
>
> I am glad that you enjoy both sets of speakers, nor am I suggesting that =
JBL speakers are "bad". Nor do I disagree with you on any one speaker is an=
y more suitable for any given type of music than any other. But the JBLs ar=
e not to my taste.
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA

I've never had the issues that some have with the L100's supposed shrillnes=
s, and therefore the inability to spend long periods of time listening to t=
hem. Like the 3's/3a's, it's certainly easy enough using the tone controls,=
as well as positioning, to tailor their output. But then again, I've neve=
r had the issues that lots of people have with the AR's, how they sound lik=
e a blanket was thrown over them, no dynamics, etc. I can only assume that =
it's a combination of my other gear, my room, that my L100's are original s=
o perhaps the output is muted to some degree vs. restored versions which pe=
rhaps are brighter because of new caps, that my AR3's have been restored in=
cluding the tweets and mids so that they now output like they did when they=
were new, etc. Or perhaps it's just that I like the sound of each speaker =
a lot. I know that I've heard some speakers(and to be honest, Maggies are i=
n that category) which have never appealed to me for whatever reason while =
others rave about them. Again, I can only chalk it up to personal preferenc=
es.
--- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
* Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)

From: Peter Wieck (1:396/4)
To: All
Date: Wed, 26.05.21 17:12
Re: AR3a vs. JBL-100
From: Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com>

Maggies need a large room and a brute-force amp to have any hope at all. Th=
ey are less critical of placement than one might expect, but room size is i=
mportant. I keep MG-IIIas with a 200-wpc amp, in a room that is 17 x 22 x 1=
0 (feet). Much of anything less, and they are stifled.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
--- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
* Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)

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