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From: Al (1:153/757.2)
To: All
Date: Sun, 27.12.20 21:10
mutil issues
Re: mutil issues
By: Aaron Thomas to All on Sun Dec 27 2020 10:47 pm

AT> But not Fidonet. For some reason, my test messages aren't being delivered
AT> to my host, and my packets aren't getting imported.

We'll have to try and figure that out.

AT> The way I poll for messages, for now as a rookie, is I run a script
AT> (manually) that does this:

AT> ./fidpoll 77:1/100 (my scinet hub)
AT> ./fidopoll 25:25/0 (my metronet hub)
AT> ./fidopoll 1:275/100 (my fidonet hub)
AT> ./mutil (to import any packets I received)

AT> I know this is a sloppy way to handle echomail, but it's been ok until I
AT> tried to add Fidonet. It's just the Fidonet stuff that's not getting
AT> imported and/or exported.

That's not really sloppy, that's a perfectly good way to do it.

Does your log give any indication of what is happening when you are tossing
fido mail?

Ttyl Smile,
Al

... Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

From: Jay Harris (1:229/664)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 09:14
Re: mutil issues
On 27 Dec 2020, Aaron Thomas said the following...

AT> I have previously merged the nodelists for these nets with mutil, but my
AT> BBS is not yet listed on the Fido nodelist. Could that be the issue?

AT> Does this information reveal anything? What are some things I can look
AT> into?

You don't need to be in the nodelist to send/receive mail.

Check out mystic/logs/poll.log to make sure you're connecting to your Fidonet
hub properly and receiving mail and then check out mystic/logs/mutil.log to see
if there's any hints in there. Sometimes having an incorrect packet password
(or any packet password at all) can be the culprit.

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/11/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

From: Aaron Thomas (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 11:49
Re: mutil issues
A> Does your log give any indication of what is happening when you are tossing
A> fido mail?

Here's a rundown of what I tried just now:

I posted a test message in "Fidonet: Asian Links"
I ran mutil (with import echomail=true and export echomail=true)
- mutil indicated that 1 echomail was exported
I ran fidopoll to poll my Fido hub
- fidopoll indicated that 1 message was sent and that a packet was received
I ran mutil again (same settings)
- mutil indicated 0 sent & 0 received

Then I reviewed fidopoll.log and found:
Receiving 00000001.MO0 (4,395 bytes)
Sending: 0000ffff.mo0 (938 bytes)
Session ended (1 sent, 1 rcvd, 0 skip)

Then I reviewed mutil.log and found:
(1st time I ran it right after posting in Fido: Asian Links -before polling)
Process: Importing EchoMail
Waiting for BUSY nodes
Results: 0 echo, 0 net, 0 dupes, 0 tossed in 0.03s
Process: Exporting EchoMail
Waiting for BUSY nodes
Scanning...
1 msgs from [Fidonet] Asian Links
Results: 1 echo, 0 net, 0 skipped in 0.21s
Shutdown Normal

----- That "Waiting for BUSY nodes" part is suspicious! -----

Further into the log shows what happened when I ran mutil AFTER polling:
Process: Importing EchoMail
Waiting for BUSY nodes
Extracting 00000001.MO0
Importing 28085851.PKT (1:275/100 to 1:275/99)

Then I logged on to my hub's BBS (Shenk's Express) and found that my test
message that I posted in Fido: Asian Links did not post to the network.

Let me know what you make of this. I suspect there's something up with
"Waiting for BUSY nodes."

I was having a similar issue with Scinet about a week ago, and Jay recommended
I run ./mis poll to see if anything would go out, and that seemed to solve the
problem with Scinet. But I tried to do it here to solve the Fidonet issue but
no luck.

Thanks Al and thanks Jay!

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Jay Harris (1:229/664)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 12:30
Re: mutil issues
On 28 Dec 2020, Aaron Thomas said the following...

AT> Let me know what you make of this. I suspect there's something up with
AT> "Waiting for BUSY nodes."

Try running ./fidopoll killbusy (or ./mis poll killbusy) and then try again.
That should delete any .bsy files that may be stopping your mail from flowing.

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/11/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

From: Aaron Thomas (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 14:47
Re: mutil issues
JH> Try running ./fidopoll killbusy (or ./mis poll killbusy) and then try again
JH> That should delete any .bsy files that may be stopping your mail from flowi

Thanks for this advice.

I tried ./fidopoll killbusy, ran mutil again, checked for msgs on the hub,
there were none, then I tried ./mis poll killbusy, and the terminal locked up
and became unresponsive. I pressed CTRL-Z and it put me back in the terminal.
I ran mutil again, fidopoll, then mutil again, checked the hub, still my test
message isn't posting to the net.

I'll try some stuff but let me know if anything else comes to mind.

And thanks a lot!
--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: You cannot sedate, all the things you hate (1:229/426)

From: Al (1:153/757.2)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 16:56
Re: mutil issues
Re: Re: mutil issues
By: Aaron Thomas to Al on Mon Dec 28 2020 10:49 am

AT> I posted a test message in "Fidonet: Asian Links"
AT> I ran mutil (with import echomail=true and export echomail=true)
AT> - mutil indicated that 1 echomail was exported
AT> I ran fidopoll to poll my Fido hub
AT> - fidopoll indicated that 1 message was sent and that a packet was

Was that Dec. 26? I see a message in ASIAN_LINK from you and just replied.

OK, now I see that message was posted at Shenks Express.

I wonder if there is some issue between yourself and Shenks? Maybe a packet
password error? If you are currently using a packet password, try removing it
or if not try adding it and testing.

You might have to get a hold of Carol and confirm the settings you are using
and things are working as expected.

FIDOTEST is a good place (or this one) to test away and we'll tell you what we
see.

AT> ----- That "Waiting for BUSY nodes" part is suspicious! -----

Yes, it is. That can be a problem. Mystic doesn't toss or scan if there are
busy nodes, it'll do the toss and scan after the outbound is not busy.

I've had that happen before but not in quite a while. If that happens I would
run "./mis poll killbusy all". If mis is running you might have to shut it down
before running that command.

Fidopoll has been removed from recent versions of Mystic. If you are running a
recent version I would delete fidopoll and use "mis poll 1:234/567" or "mis
poll killbusy all".

AT> Further into the log shows what happened when I ran mutil AFTER polling:
AT> Process: Importing EchoMail
AT> Waiting for BUSY nodes
AT> Extracting 00000001.MO0
AT> Importing 28085851.PKT (1:275/100 to 1:275/99)

AT> Then I logged on to my hub's BBS (Shenk's Express) and found that my test
AT> message that I posted in Fido: Asian Links did not post to the network.

This is what makes me suspicious of a packet password issue. Try adding or
removing your packet password and see if things work better. If that still
doesn't work you have to get a hold of Carol and ask her to look into it.

AT> Let me know what you make of this. I suspect there's something up with
AT> "Waiting for BUSY nodes."

That's a different issue that can happen from time to time. I'm not sure how we
get into that situation but the only cure that I know is to shut down mis (if
it is running) and run "mis poll killbusy all".

Ttyl Smile,
Al

... You cannot achieve the impossible without attempting the absurd.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

From: Aaron Thomas (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 21:08
Re: mutil issues
A> I wonder if there is some issue between yourself and Shenks? Maybe a packet
A> password error? If you are currently using a packet password, try removing i
A> or if not try adding it and testing.

I asked Carol but she said no password was needed. Also, packets seem to be
downloading from her, but just not importing into my BBS for some reason. I
can see a whole bunch of fido-related files in my msgs folder, but I'm not
sure if they were auto created when I added the message bases, or if those
files exist because they were downloaded from the hub.

A> You might have to get a hold of Carol and confirm the settings you are using
A> and things are working as expected.

I think she has me set up properly on her end. She's been in communication
with me, but I don't know what else to ask of her.

She uses Argus and Synchronet. Is it uncommon for a Mystic sysop to receive
packets from an Argus/Synchronet system?

Another thing that concerns me is: When I added the Fido message bases to
Mystic, I imported them with a FIDONET.NA file. When I imported, I selected 0
for JAM. Maybe I should have selected 1 for Squish? Not sure about that.

I also have CRAM-MD5: Yes
I tried setting it to "No" prior to polling, and "Forced" prior to polling,
but with no luck.

I also tried changing Export Type to the different options, then polling, but
none helped so I left it as "CRASH" because that's how I have Scinet &
Metronet (and with those 2 networks I have no problems.Wink

A> FIDOTEST is a good place (or this one) to test away and we'll tell you what
A> see.

Thanks. For now I've been just testing in Asian Links because Carol watches
that echo, and she will be interested to know if I ever get this working. I've
sent about 5 test messages in that echo already (from my BBS) but of course
none have shown up yet.

Carol mentioned to me "You might want to grab more echos because you only have
1 set up right now."

Is that something that gets fixed with Areafix? I never used areafix before,
because Scinet and Metronet (Netsurge & Exodus) seemed to have that
preconfigured for me, so I was already signed up for all the echos.

With Fidonet, do I need to sign up for the echos proactively? I think that's
was Carol meant - but how would I do that? I don't understand the Mystic
instructions via the Mystic Configuration. It says "Send a message with
Areafix in the To: field."

What kind of message does that mean? A netmail message addressed to Carol?
(That's just a guess.Wink Or does it mean post a message in the echo that I want
to add?

I want to be subscribed to all echos. I'm not sure if my inability to
import/export messages in ASIAN_LINKS is due to me not being subscribed?

Sorry Al! What a pain in the butt this stuff is. My next move will be to check
with other sysops in my network to see if any of them are running Mystic, and
maybe they can help me communicate better with Carol's hub.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Al (1:153/757.2)
To: All
Date: Mon, 28.12.20 19:20
Re: mutil issues
Re: Re: mutil issues
By: Aaron Thomas to Al on Mon Dec 28 2020 08:08 pm

AT> I asked Carol but she said no password was needed.

OK, scratch the packet passwords..

AT> Also, packets seem to be downloading from her, but just not importing into
AT> my BBS for some reason. I can see a whole bunch of fido-related files in
AT> my msgs folder, but I'm not sure if they were auto created when I added
AT> the message bases, or if those files exist because they were downloaded
AT> from the hub.

Mystic can auto create areas.. maybe that is what is happening. You can set
that up in the mutil.ini you use to toss incoming mail.

If that is happening those areas should show on your BBS.

AT> I think she has me set up properly on her end. She's been in communication
AT> with me, but I don't know what else to ask of her.

Yep, sounds like you are well on your way.

AT> She uses Argus and Synchronet. Is it uncommon for a Mystic sysop to
AT> receive packets from an Argus/Synchronet system?

One of my links uses Argus (Radius in his case) and it works well.
Argus/Taurus/Radius is not used much these days but may still be used at some
nodes.

AT> Another thing that concerns me is: When I added the Fido message bases to
AT> Mystic, I imported them with a FIDONET.NA file. When I imported, I
AT> selected 0 for JAM. Maybe I should have selected 1 for Squish? Not sure
AT> about that.

Squish isn't supported anymore so you'll have to use Jam.

AT> I also have CRAM-MD5: Yes
AT> I tried setting it to "No" prior to polling, and "Forced" prior to
AT> polling, but with no luck.

I see in my logs that I get a secure CRAM-MD5 session with my link using
Radius. Not all mailers support CRAM-MD5, BBBS does not. I'm not sure if Argus
supports CRAM-MD5 or not. You should ask Carol if her mailer supports CRAM-MD5.
It is best to use it when it is available.

I would set CRAM-MD5 to yes, the mailer will use it if available and fall back
if not. If you set it to forced the session will fail if CRAM-MD5 is not
supported on the remote node.

AT> I also tried changing Export Type to the different options, then polling,
AT> but none helped so I left it as "CRASH" because that's how I have Scinet &
AT> Metronet (and with those 2 networks I have no problems.Wink


Yes, that should work for fido as well.

AT> Thanks. For now I've been just testing in Asian Links because Carol
AT> watches that echo, and she will be interested to know if I ever get this
AT> working. I've sent about 5 test messages in that echo already (from my
AT> BBS) but of course none have shown up yet.

Watch the area tags, they need to match. The area tag is ASIAN_LINK, not
ASIAN_LINKS. A message for the area ASIAN_LINKS will not go anywhere.

AT> Carol mentioned to me "You might want to grab more echos because you only
AT> have 1 set up right now."

AT> Is that something that gets fixed with Areafix? I never used areafix
AT> before, because Scinet and Metronet (Netsurge & Exodus) seemed to have
AT> that preconfigured for me, so I was already signed up for all the echos.

Yes, you can connect/disconnect/rescan any areas at any time with Areafix.

Send a netmail message To: Areafix with your password on the subject line and
your commands in the body of the message. To get the areafix help message send
a netmail to Areafix at your links address, put your password on the subject
line and put %help in the message body.

Areafix will send you the help message in a netmail message. That netmail may
be addressed to Sysop, so be sure you have a forward line in the mutil.ini you
use to toss mail to address mail to sysop to you..

forward = Sysop;Aaron Thomas

AT> With Fidonet, do I need to sign up for the echos proactively? I think
AT> that's was Carol meant - but how would I do that? I don't understand the
AT> Mystic instructions via the Mystic Configuration. It says "Send a message
AT> with Areafix in the To: field."

Yes, send a netmail to Areafix at 1:275/100 (or your links address) and put the
commands you want in the message. No one will see your messages or replies. Get
the help message to see what commands Areafix at your link supports. Try
something like this..

============================================================================
From: Aaron Thomas 1:275/99
To: Areafix 1:275/100
Subject: secret
============================================================================
+FIDOTEST
+MYSTIC
%help
%list
%query
%unlinked
%rescan <areatag>

Be sure you don't send a message to areafix in an echomail area. Send a
netmail.

AT> What kind of message does that mean? A netmail message addressed to Carol?
AT> (That's just a guess.Wink Or does it mean post a message in the echo that I
AT> want to add?

Send a netmail message to Areafix. Areafix is a robot that tossers use to
connect, disconnect and rescan areas for linked nodes. You can also get a list
of areas, a list of linked or unlinked areas. These are private message between
yourself and Areafix (a robot). Only you will see these messages and replies.

One line in the body of a message to areafix will connect you to an area.

+fidotest

will connect you to the FIDOTEST area. I believe synchronets areafix supports
%+All so send that to Areafix to connect every available area, do that on a
line by itself..

AT> I want to be subscribed to all echos. I'm not sure if my inability to
AT> import/export messages in ASIAN_LINKS is due to me not being subscribed?

If 1:275/100's areafix supports "%+ALL" that command on a line of it's own in a
message to Areafix will connect you to all areas. Don't forget the password on
the subject line.

AT> Sorry Al! What a pain in the butt this stuff is. My next move will be to
AT> check with other sysops in my network to see if any of them are running
AT> Mystic, and maybe they can help me communicate better with Carol's hub.

No worries. Areafix can act differently between versions. Check your Areafix
help message and if %+ALL is supported, I think that'll do what you want.

Ttyl Smile,
Al

... (Tagline under construction)
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

From: Jay Harris (1:229/664)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 09:27
Re: mutil issues
On 28 Dec 2020, Al said the following...

Al> AT> ----- That "Waiting for BUSY nodes" part is suspicious! -----

Al> Yes, it is. That can be a problem. Mystic doesn't toss or scan if there
Al> are busy nodes, it'll do the toss and scan after the outbound is not
Al> busy.

This just made me think (dangerous I know)... ;)

Check this option in the .ini file you use to export mail:


[ExportEchoMail]

; Do not export messages from users currently online
skip_online = false


I have mine set to false so that mail is sent even if I'm still connected to
the board.

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/11/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

From: Jay Harris (1:229/664)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 09:37
Re: mutil issues
On 28 Dec 2020, Al said the following...

Al> AT> Carol mentioned to me "You might want to grab more echos because you
Al> AT> have 1 set up right now."

Al> AT> Is that something that gets fixed with Areafix? I never used areafix
Al> AT> before, because Scinet and Metronet (Netsurge & Exodus) seemed to hav
Al> AT> that preconfigured for me, so I was already signed up for all the ech

Al> Yes, you can connect/disconnect/rescan any areas at any time with
Al> Areafix.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be subscribed to an echo before
you can also send to it?

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/11/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

From: Al (1:153/757.2)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 06:53
Re: mutil issues
Re: Re: mutil issues
By: Jay Harris to Al on Tue Dec 29 2020 08:37 am

JH> Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be subscribed to an echo
JH> before you can also send to it?

That depends on your tosser, but yes I would say if you want to send to an area
you should be connected. I use HPT on my node and it requires that you be
connected to an area to send messages but not all tossers work that way.

Ttyl Smile,
Al

... All those updates, and still imperfect!
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

From: Aaron Thomas (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 10:16
Re: mutil issues
A> Watch the area tags, they need to match. The area tag is ASIAN_LINK, not
A> ASIAN_LINKS. A message for the area ASIAN_LINKS will not go anywhere.

That was the issue! ASIAN_LINK was probably the only area Carol had me
subscribed to (be default) and I had the tag wrong because that was the
only area I added manually (the others I added with FIDONET.NA) I changed the
tag to ASIAN_LINK (no S) then created a new test message and it went through.

A> Send a netmail message To: Areafix with your password on the subject line an
A> your commands in the body of the message. To get the areafix help message se
A> a netmail to Areafix at your links address, put your password on the subject
A> line and put %help in the message body.

Thanks for this explanation. I'm working on this now, and I will refer back
to these instructions to get my other echos subscribed.

Thanks for everything Al & Jay. You guys have helped me a lot and I'm
grateful!

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Aaron Thomas (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 10:19
Re: mutil issues
JH> ; Do not export messages from users currently online
JH> skip_online = false

Thanks for that tip. That's a mistake I made previously when I was constantly
online and I was trying to poll for messages for months without success Smile

Now days I'm polling while offline just to always be sure that I'm not going
insane.

I should be in good shape now. I'm just waiting to see how the AreaFix works
out.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Jay Harris (1:229/664)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 11:27
Re: mutil issues
On 29 Dec 2020, Aaron Thomas said the following...

AT> Thanks for that tip. That's a mistake I made previously when I was
AT> constantly online and I was trying to poll for messages for months
AT> without success Smile

Have you seen Paul Hayton's videos on YouTube? They helped me out a whole
bunch when I was getting started back in May.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MysticGuyBBS/videos

It made things a lot easier having a step-by-step guide on how to do various
things & you get to listen to a soothing kiwi accent while you learn! ;)

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/11/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)

From: Aaron Thomas (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Tue, 29.12.20 15:47
Re: mutil issues
JH> https://www.youtube.com/c/MysticGuyBBS/videos
JH>
JH> It made things a lot easier having a step-by-step guide on how to do variou
JH> things & you get to listen to a soothing kiwi accent while you learn! ;)

Sounds relaxing! lol

I read his Mystic wiki (I think it's his Mystic wiki) but I bet the videos can
be helpful too, possibly covering stuff that was left out of the wiki.

Thanks for the link and I will review them to see what else I may have missed.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: All
Date: Wed, 30.12.20 15:29
Re: mutil issues
On 29 Dec 2020 at 02:47p, Aaron Thomas pondered and said...

AT> I read his Mystic wiki (I think it's his Mystic wiki) but I bet the
AT> videos can be helpful too, possibly covering stuff that was left out of
AT> the wiki.

It's James Wiki but I was granted access to it and had added pages to it over
time. The videos do need updating and are on my TO-DO list to do so.

Hopefully A47 will be released in the coming months and I can use that as the
basis for some new footage Smile

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

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