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From: A. Dumas (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 07:20
Re: Politics on this echo?
Vincent Coen <nospam.Vincent.Coen@f1.n250.z2.fidonet.org> wrote:
> Hello A!
>
> Sunday March 28 2021 17:45, you wrote to mark lewis:
>
> > mark lewis <nospam.mark.lewis@f1.n770.z7522.fidonet.org> wrote:
> >> Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
> >> By: Craig Dooley to Tims on Sun Mar 28 2021 10:20:43
> >> CD> This is the Raspberry Pi Discussion Echo on Fidonet.
> >>
> >> it is a gated newsgroup... conversations go to both sides of the
> >> gate...
>
> > And you guys (and/or your admin) should fix that damn clock! All
> > date/time headers from fido are wrong.
>
> Some people do not have their TZUTC setting at all.

It doesn't matter what time the client has set, the *gateway* posts, so it
should use its local time with correct timezone info.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: Pancho (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 10:25
Re: Politics on this echo?
On 29/03/2021 08:17, A. Dumas wrote:

> No conversion is needed, just a correct format of the Date: header. I
> suspect it is being converted wrongly; it should just use the current local
> time of the gateway computer with the correct timezone added. It says +13
> which seems right, so just use that without any time conversion. Right now,
> all fido posts appear to be from the past, sometimes older than the post
> they are replying to.
>
Something bigger wrong than that. My guess would be are in a zone like
Eastern America UTC-4, which should be applied, however it is applying
New Zealand UTC+13. How does NZ get +13? Shouldn't it be -11? Is it
something to do with daylight saving.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 08:18
Re: Politics on this echo?
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: A. Dumas to mark lewis on Mon Mar 29 2021 07:17:51


>>> And you guys (and/or your admin) should fix that damn clock! All date/time
headers from fido are wrong.

>> please direct your complaints to the proper place as depicted in every
message
>> gated from fidonet into the group... the necessary data should be easily
found
>> in the headers...

> It's easily found all right but it is on you.

no, it is not...

> You are bothering us with that faulty gateway, *you* are using that
software.

no, we are not using that software... we have no control over what someone else
runs on their BBS system... that someone has chosen to run a gateway package
and connect an echo with a newsgroup is their decision and their's
alone... since you are the one(s) being bothered, it is on you to complain to
the gate operator... most things look just fine over here...

> I don't know Paul Hayton, I don't have an account on his system.

email doesn't work?? interesting...

> No conversion is needed, just a correct format of the Date: header. I
> suspect it is being converted wrongly; it should just use the current local
> time of the gateway computer with the correct timezone added.

are you saying that my message, written from the US east coast (UTC -0400 right
now) should have its timestamp thrown out and the time my message is processed
at the gateway should be used?

or are you saying that the gateway software should convert my UTC -0400 time
stamp to UTC +1300?? that should be easily handled in the cases where the
message has a proper TZUTC control line...

however, TZUTC is a relatively new ""feature"" in fidonet messages... it being
only a decade or so old... it is not required by the fidonet standards and
there's a lot of older software being used that has no idea what TZUTC
is so their posts carry only the timestamp with no indicator of the
originator's timezone... if the original software and standards had specified
that the message time stamps were to be in UTC this would not be a problem but
fidonet is a hobby network with a ton of software written by hobbists... we
won't even talk about the time stamps of the messages written by users and
uploaded to the BBSes using offline messaging standards like QWK, QWKE, and
Bluewave which also know nothing about timezones...

> It says +13 which seems right,

since the gateway is located in New Zealand, that sounds about right...

> so just use that without any time conversion.

see above...

> Right now, all fido posts appear to be from the past, sometimes older than
> the post they are replying to.

we see similar on this side of the fence, at times, too... we don't worry about
it since we're more interested in the message bodys (first), maybe who wrote
the message (second), and possibly some third thing related to the
message or conversation or people involved...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 08:20
Re: Politics on this echo?
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: A. Dumas to Vincent Coen on Mon Mar 29 2021 07:20:06


>> Some people do not have their TZUTC setting at all.

> It doesn't matter what time the client has set, the *gateway* posts, so it
should use its local time with correct timezone info.

it absolutely does matter! otherwise you might have 100 messages all with the
same time stamp on them instead of the real one for when the message was
actually written... you're not thinking this through...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: Anssi Saari (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 15:59
Re: Politics on this echo?
A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes:

> mark lewis <nospam.mark.lewis@f1.n770.z7522.fidonet.org> wrote:
>> Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
>> By: Craig Dooley to Tims on Sun Mar 28 2021 10:20:43
>> CD> This is the Raspberry Pi Discussion Echo on Fidonet.
>>
>> it is a gated newsgroup... conversations go to both sides of the gate...
>
> And you guys (and/or your admin) should fix that damn clock! All date/time
> headers from fido are wrong.

Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember the
Usenet group though. As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I
suppose the gateway software didn't get fixed either.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: TimS (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 13:31
Re: Politics on this echo?
On 29 Mar 2021 at 13:59:53 BST, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

> A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes:
>
>> mark lewis <nospam.mark.lewis@f1.n770.z7522.fidonet.org> wrote:
>>> Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
>>> By: Craig Dooley to Tims on Sun Mar 28 2021 10:20:43
>>> CD> This is the Raspberry Pi Discussion Echo on Fidonet.
>>>
>>> it is a gated newsgroup... conversations go to both sides of the gate...
>>
>> And you guys (and/or your admin) should fix that damn clock! All date/time
>> headers from fido are wrong.
>
> Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
> timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember the
> Usenet group though. As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I
> suppose the gateway software didn't get fixed either.

Is there a header or something else that unambiguously indicates that a
message has been gatewayed through to Usenet? Thne I could filter it out.

--
Tim

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: A. Dumas (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 14:31
Re: Politics on this echo?
mark lewis <nospam.mark.lewis@f1.n770.z7563.fidonet.org> wrote:
> Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
> By: A. Dumas to Vincent Coen on Mon Mar 29 2021 07:20:06
>
>
> >> Some people do not have their TZUTC setting at all.
>
> > It doesn't matter what time the client has set, the *gateway* posts, so it
> > should use its local time with correct timezone info.
>
> it absolutely does matter! otherwise you might have 100 messages all with the
> same time stamp on them instead of the real one for when the message was
> actually written... you're not thinking this through...
>
>
> )\/(ark
>

Oh fuck off.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: A. Dumas (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 14:31
Re: Politics on this echo?
Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
> A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes:
>
>> mark lewis <nospam.mark.lewis@f1.n770.z7522.fidonet.org> wrote:
>>> Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
>>> By: Craig Dooley to Tims on Sun Mar 28 2021 10:20:43
>>>> This is the Raspberry Pi Discussion Echo on Fidonet.
>>>
>>> it is a gated newsgroup... conversations go to both sides of the gate...
>>
>> And you guys (and/or your admin) should fix that damn clock! All date/time
>> headers from fido are wrong.
>
> Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
> timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember the
> Usenet group though. As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I
> suppose the gateway software didn't get fixed either.

Yeah, it was here.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: A. Dumas (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 14:32
Re: Politics on this echo?
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2021 at 13:59:53 BST, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
>
>> A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> mark lewis <nospam.mark.lewis@f1.n770.z7522.fidonet.org> wrote:
>>>> Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
>>>> By: Craig Dooley to Tims on Sun Mar 28 2021 10:20:43
>>>>> This is the Raspberry Pi Discussion Echo on Fidonet.
>>>>
>>>> it is a gated newsgroup... conversations go to both sides of the gate...
>>>
>>> And you guys (and/or your admin) should fix that damn clock! All date/time
>>> headers from fido are wrong.
>>
>> Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
>> timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember the
>> Usenet group though. As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I
>> suppose the gateway software didn't get fixed either.
>
> Is there a header or something else that unambiguously indicates that a
> message has been gatewayed through to Usenet? Thne I could filter it out.

Any of these, I guess:

Organization: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | bbs.nz/#Fidonet
User-Agent: VSoup v1.2.9.47Beta [95/NT]
X-Mailconverter: SoupGate-Win32 v1.05

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 12:12
Re: Politics on this echo?
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: Anssi Saari to A. Dumas on Mon Mar 29 2021 15:59:53


AS> Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
AS> timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember
AS> the Usenet group though.

probably this one... it is a fairly popular area in fidonet... especially when
one doesn't want to have to set up a news reader...

AS> As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I suppose the
AS> gateway software didn't get fixed either.

it is next to impossible to fix a binary without the source code or someone
very adept at binary level hacking ;)


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 12:14
Re: Politics on this echo?
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: A. Dumas to mark lewis on Mon Mar 29 2021 14:31:03


>>>> Some people do not have their TZUTC setting at all.

>>> It doesn't matter what time the client has set, the *gateway* posts, so it
should use its local time with correct timezone info.

>> it absolutely does matter! otherwise you might have 100 messages all with
the same time stamp on them instead of the real one for when the message was
actually written... you're not thinking this through...

> Oh fuck off.

typical "A. Dum(b)as(s)" response ;)


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: Ahem A Rivet's Shot (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 29.03.21 18:07
Re: Politics on this echo?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:59:53 +0300
Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

> > headers from fido are wrong.
>
> Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
> timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember the
> Usenet group though. As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I
> suppose the gateway software didn't get fixed either.

It seems that there's no way to fix it since the original
timestamps do not always carry timezone information. Put it in the bin with
two digit years, indistinguishable date orderings and other unfixable bugs
and move on.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: Scott Alfter (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Tue, 30.03.21 19:05
Re: Politics on this echo?
In article <1616941244@f126.n123.z1.fidonet.org>,
Craig Dooley <nospam.Craig.Dooley@f126.n123.z1.fidonet.org> wrote:
>BY: TimS(3:770/3)
>
>
>T> Echo? Gating? What are you talking about?
>T>
>This is the Raspberry Pi Discussion Echo on Fidonet.

No, it isn't. It's comp.sys.raspberry-pi, a Usenet newsgroup. Somebody on
Fidonet (hard to believe it's still around...last time I used it was over 25
years ago, and one of the local sysops in 1:209 ran a Usenet gateway back
then) may be mapping it to the local idiom, but that's all it is: a mapping
from one network to another.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: Big Bad Bob (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Sat, 08.05.21 15:04
Re: Politics on this echo?
On 2021-03-28 06:10, A. Dumas wrote:
> Craig Dooley <nospam.Craig.Dooley@f126.n123.z1.fidonet.org> wrote:
>> Just curious, why is there so much political discussion on a Raspberry Pi
>> echo?
>
> Because this place is filled with old miserable assholes living in the
> past, thinking they know everything because they can program in assembly
> language.
>

OK, Moocher.

OK, Doomer.

OK, Lib-Tard

(you're welcome)

you young whippersnappers, GET OFF MY LAWN!

(heh heh heh)


--
(aka 'Bombastic Bob' in case you wondered)

'Feeling with my fingers, and thinking with my brain' - me

'your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie'
"Straighten up and fly right"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: All
Date: Sun, 09.05.21 21:12
Re: Politics on this echo?
On 28 Mar 2021 at 07:27p, Theo pondered and said...

Th> Somebody crossposted something to 8 newsgroups and set followups to 4,
Th> one of which was here. Then the usual thing happens where people reply
Th> without trimming the followups, and there are now some lovely flames
Th> going. You probably can't see the crossposts if you're viewing from
Th> Fidonet.
Th>
Th> As ever, if helps if people refrain from feeding the troll.
Th> (and I suppose you on Fido don't have killfiles either, and killing
Th> crossposts isn't a thing you can do)

Hi Theo.

Just catching up on this thread. I run the gateway and will try to emulate
the killfile idea to prevent the non raspberry pi cross posted stuff from
passing across to Fidonet. Not sure how successful I'll be but would like to
try. If you have any suggested newsgroups that I should try to filter as junk
groups can you let me know please Smile

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: All
Date: Sun, 09.05.21 21:21
Re: Politics on this echo?
On 28 Mar 2021 at 07:36a, Craig Dooley pondered and said...

CD> Just curious, why is there so much political discussion on a Raspberry
CD> Pi echo?
CD> Is someone mis-gating this echo?

Hi Craig

The newsgroup comp.sys.raspberry-pi is bi-directonaly gated to the Fidonet
echomail area RBERRYPI , this ha been for the most part without issue for a
number of years with folks from both sides of the gateway chatting about Rpi
related topics.

The gateway software is legacy stuff called SoupGate. The gateway is based in
New Zealand where we are UTC +1200 and during our daylight savings time
(Sept - April) it's UTC +1300 ... so messages in/out via nodes from Fido have
this time stamp applied. Of course Fido nodes are also all around the globe
so we see messages in Fido here in NZ from our yesterday while we post in
other folks future Smile

The gateway attempts to filter out some spam but is not (nor will never be)
100% effective at it.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Martin Gregorie (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Sun, 09.05.21 19:30
Re: Politics on this echo?
On Sun, 09 May 2021 21:12:20 +1200, Paul Hayton wrote:

> Just catching up on this thread. I run the gateway and will try to
> emulate the killfile idea to prevent the non raspberry pi cross posted
> stuff from passing across to Fidonet. Not sure how successful I'll be
> but would like to try. If you have any suggested newsgroups that I
> should try to filter as junk groups can you let me know please Smile
>
No Newsgroup suggestions for going under the ban hammer, but would it be
possible to add Spam Assassin to your spam filtering pipeline? Its a
good, flexible an configurable email spam filter. At the least, it would
be interesting to see if it is also useful for filtering newsgroup or
Fidonet message streams.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: All
Date: Mon, 10.05.21 19:59
Re: Politics on this echo?
On 09 May 2021 at 07:30p, Martin Gregorie pondered and said...

MG> No Newsgroup suggestions for going under the ban hammer, but would it be
MG> possible to add Spam Assassin to your spam filtering pipeline? Its a
MG> good, flexible an configurable email spam filter. At the least, it would
MG> be interesting to see if it is also useful for filtering newsgroup or
MG> Fidonet message streams.

Hi there Smile

Sorry it's not my area of expertise to set that software up and I'm unsure
how it would integrate into this gateway binary... that said I have attempted
to add some newsgroups from some of the more busy political areas in Usenet
to the gateway filter. This is in an attempt to try and reduce gating posts
that have been crossed posted into this newsgroup but that also contain
x-post references of the aforementioned political newsgroups.

I can't say it will be 100% but I can try Smile

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Theo (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 10.05.21 12:00
Re: Politics on this echo?
Paul Hayton <nospam.Paul.Hayton@f100.n770.z3.fidonet.org> wrote:
> Just catching up on this thread. I run the gateway and will try to emulate
> the killfile idea to prevent the non raspberry pi cross posted stuff from
> passing across to Fidonet. Not sure how successful I'll be but would like
> to try. If you have any suggested newsgroups that I should try to filter
> as junk groups can you let me know please Smile

Generally a good rule of thumb is not to blacklist groups, but to limit
crossposts. Something posted to more than maybe two groups has a much
greater likelihood to be spam/trolling.

It won't help the ongoing fires when the discussion splinters off into parts
only posted to one group, but should block the initial spark.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

From: Martin Gregorie (3:770/3)
To: All
Date: Mon, 10.05.21 10:53
Re: Politics on this echo?
On Mon, 10 May 2021 19:59:47 +1200, Paul Hayton wrote:

> Sorry it's not my area of expertise to set that software up and I'm
> unsure how it would integrate into this gateway binary... that said I
> have attempted to add some newsgroups from some of the more busy
> political areas in Usenet to the gateway filter. This is in an attempt
> to try and reduce gating posts that have been crossed posted into this
> newsgroup but that also contain x-post references of the aforementioned
> political newsgroups.
>
OK, in summary, Spamassassin (aka SA) is a filter, written in Perl, that
scores messages for spamminess and can be added into almost any pipeline.
It reads messages from stdin, examines (both headers and body to
calculates a spaminess score and writes the message on stdout, adding
headers containing the score and a list of the rules that the message
triggered. SA rules contain a regular expression and a score - the score
is added to the overall message spamminess score if the regular
expression matched anything in the message. Thats all SA does: calculates
a score (by convention less than 5 is ham, over 5 is spam), adds some
spam-related headers to vte message ande passes it on.

I run it as part of a pipeline that passes messages read via getmail
through SA and a spam discriminator and delivers non-spam to a local MTA
for delivery on my local LAN. The discriminator quarantines any messages
with a spam score of over 5.

Using the full SA may be a bit OTT for what you're trying to do, though
loking at its documentation may give you some goo ideas, but writing some
sort of filter in Perl that uses a configurable collection of regexes
that trigger on spam indicators should be doable.

HTH








--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

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