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From: Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
To: All
Date: Wed, 28.06.17 01:22
Prayer about Putin
Hello Everybody,

Мара, взгляни на растленье вокруг,
Власть проституток, бандитов, хапуг!
Путину грозный Свой лик покажи;
Нравам разврата конец положи;
Суд над режимом его соверши!

Путин правà человека попрал!
Мысли и слòва свободу украл!
Даже свободу собраний забрал!
С братским народом войну развязал!

Мара красавица, ночи богиня,
Моря, тумана, реки берегиня!
Путину грозный Свой лик покажи;
Нравам растленья конец положи;
Суд над режимом его соверши!
Суд над режимом его соверши!
Суд над режимом его соверши!

-by Avak Avakyan

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

From: Allen Prunty (1:2320/100)
To: All
Date: Wed, 28.06.17 13:15
Re: Prayer about Putin
Re: Re: Prayer about Putin
By: alexander koryagin to Lee Lofaso on Wed Jun 28 2017 02:45 pm

AK> Why you post it in Russian? Don't you know that the people from not
AK> Russian Fido zones can'r read Cyrillic letters? ;-) And IMHO a very few
AK> know Russian language also. Smile

And the Russians that are here amazingly can write (not sure about speaking but
I suspect you speak it well too) English better than most of our High School
students.

Always a pleasure hearing from you Alexander.

Allen

... We think he's dead, but we're afraid to ask.
--- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Wed, 28.06.17 16:45
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 27.06.2017 22:22

LL> Мара, взгляни на растленье вокруг,
LL> Власть проституток, бандитов,
LL> хапуг! Путину грозный Свой лик

Why you post it in Russian? Don't you know that the people from not
Russian Fido zones can'r read Cyrillic letters? ;-) And IMHO a very few
know Russian language also. Smile

Bye, Lee!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017

--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Thu, 29.06.17 23:21
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Nicholas Boel!
I read your message from 28.06.2017 09:58

ak>> Why you post it in Russian? Don't you know that the people
ak>> from not Russian Fido zones can'r read Cyrillic letters?
ak>> ;-) And IMHO a very few know Russian language also. Smile
NB> Why would you quote it if your setup was just going to mangle
NB> it by trying to change it to a different character set anyways?
NB> I could read the cyrillic letters just fine. I could also
NB> copy/paste it into a translator to get an idea of what it said
NB> just fine. The fact that you may not be able to, doesn't mean
NB> no one else can.

IMHO, most people in the US and Europe use charsets like
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

and they didn't even hear that the Russians have many text coding pages,
KOI8 including.

BTW, IMHO these people also don't see your origin text in Russian:

Regards, Nick ... "Не знаю. Я
NB> здесь только работаю."

You send it in vein.

Bye, Nicholas!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Fri, 30.06.17 14:29
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Nicholas Boel!
I read your message from 29.06.2017 15:45

ak>> IMHO, most people in the US and Europe use charsets like Content-
ak>> Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NB>
NB> Only when they're using ASCII only characters. As soon as
NB> block/line drawing occurs, it changes. As soon as someone uses an
NB> umlaut, it changes, etc. However, you complain to others about
NB> posting in another language, yet when you reply you quote it. Was
NB> it to show your software didn't translate it properly?

When I communicate with people in FIDO, in an international area
especially, I tune my software as the majority people do. For this echo
area I set up US ASCII, and I am sure that all the people can read my
messages properly. It is not the case with your messages.

ak>> and they didn't even hear that the Russians have many text coding
ak>> pages, KOI8 including.
NB> KOI8-U and KOI8-R, right? Along with CP866 and maybe even a few
NB> with UTF-8. So what?

If you write messages in Russian using Russian coding pages many people
will not be able to read it. Many people use old English only software.
If it is unimportant for you it is your choice.

ak>> BTW, IMHO these people also don't see your origin text in Russian:
NB>
NB> Did you see it properly? Because you're definitely not quoting it
NB> back properly.

I know how to decoded any kind of distorted text.

ak>> You send it in vein.
NB> Actually, that has bee my tagline for almost a year now.

If people say nothing about your tagline it doesn't mean they can read it.

NB> So no, I didn't go out of my way to post it. While using this
NB> tagline, some people changed their setups specifically so they
NB> could read it.

I prefer not to cause additional problems to the people I communicate
with. But well, one line is a small problem, indeed.

NB> So I guess you could call it promoting UTF-8. My point is, if
NB> you're going to mangle it when you quote it, just don't quote it.

Usually I never quoted it.

Bye, Nicholas!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Sat, 01.07.17 23:20
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Nicholas Boel!
I read your message from 30.06.2017 14:12

ak>> When I communicate with people in FIDO, in an international area
ak>> especially, I tune my software as the majority people do. For this
ak>> echo area I set up US ASCII, and I am sure that all the people can
ak>> read my messages properly. It is not the case with your messages.

NB> Why wouldn't you tune your software to be able to read everything?
NB> Why limit yourself to US-ASCII only?

There was a period when the first IBM computers appeared in Russia. They
had English fonts and you had to install additional software for working
with Cyrillic texts. Now we have the opposite case. But should Americans
modify their old software to make it able to read your Russian lines? I
strongly doubt that anyone will search for the way how to do it.

Traditional Fidonet software doesn't support UTF coding either. I use
Thunderbird which is capable to work with any coding system.

ak>> If you write messages in Russian using Russian coding pages many
ak>> people will not be able to read it. Many people use old English
ak>> only software. If it is unimportant for you it is your choice.

NB>>> Did you see it properly? Because you're definitely not quoting it
NB>>> back properly.

If you have problem with any kind of distorted Russian text you can see
the correct text using an on-line decoding utility. (URL to a site in
Russian)
http://www.artlebedev.ru/tools/decoder/



NB> I don't expect most people to. However, there have been some that
NB> became interested, so I helped them to achieve their goal.

Which goal? To read Russian tag lines? ;)

ak>> I prefer not to cause additional problems to the people I
ak>> communicate with. But well, one line is a small problem, indeed.

NB> The only problems occur when you quote it back and distort the
NB> original text. If you can't quote it properly, don't quote it.

NB> I never said to stop complaining about the text if you don't like
NB> it. I just said don't quote it if your editor is not capable of
NB> quoting it back in it's original form. Because that's where the
NB> problems you speak of start. Altering original text is a no-no.
NB>>> So I guess you could call it promoting UTF-8. My point is, if
NB>>> you're going to mangle it when you quote it, just don't quote it.

ak>> Usually I never quoted it.
NB> But you did, which is what caused the real problem.

It was just a little note. We talked about a big Russian verse that
had been posted in this area. I have nothing against your Russian tag
line. Smile

Bye, Nicholas!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Sat, 01.07.17 23:23
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Robert Bashe!
I read your message from 30.06.2017 16:11

ak>>> You send it in vein.
RB> ??;-) vain.

Ops! ;)

Bye, Robert!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Fri, 07.07.17 12:18
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Robert Bashe!
I read your message from 06.07.2017 17:55

ak>>>>> You send it in vein.
RB>>> ??;-) vain.
ak>> Ops! ;)

RB> Sorry, Alexander. That was a nasty crack on my side. I
RB> shouldn't have made such a remark about a typo. Just got
RB> carried away.

Well, its nothing. It was a funny mistake, indeed. ;)

Bye, Robert!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017

--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Fri, 07.07.17 12:32
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Nicholas Boel!
I read your message from 06.07.2017 14:03

NB> Every bit of my message is UTF-8.

I see your headers like this:

-----Beginning of the citation-----
X-Gateway: FIDO fidogate.off.my [FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds]
X-FTN-From: Nicholas Boel @ 1:154/10.0
X-FTN-Flags:
X-FTN-Tearline: GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
X-FTN-Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
X-FTN-Domain: Z2@fidonet
X-FTN-Path: 154/10 280/464 5555 5020/1042 2140
X-FTN-Kludge: REPLY: 2:2448/44 595e6b67
X-FTN-Kludge: MSGID: 1:154/10 595e9a46
X-FTN-Kludge: CHRS: UTF-8 4
X-FTN-Kludge: TZUTC: - 0500
X-FTN-Kludge: TID: hpt/lnx 1.9.0-cur 14-08-16
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: fidogate.off.my fido7.fidonews:66251
----- The end of the citation -----

As for your tag line -- I am not a big specialist, but all I see
probably means, that you use UTF charset, but the NNTP server has KOI8r.
_All Russian NNTP servers use KOI8r_. So, the NNTP server distorts your
UTF and send it as distorted KOI8r line.

It means that I can't read it even if I set up KOI8r.

Bye, Nicholas!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017

--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Mon, 10.07.17 01:24
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Nicholas Boel!
I read your message from 07.07.2017 14:00

NB> I'm sorry to hear that. However, my comment of "Every bit of my
NB> message is UTF-8" as well as "There is nothing wrong with my
NB> setup" still stand.

For a test I've set up UTF for Fidonews area in my Thunderbird. But your
tear lines is distorted anyway. Maybe by your NNTP server?

You can look at your line at
http://vp.propush.ru/index.php?q=node/6&area=fido7.fidonews&msgid=66255

Bye, Nicholas!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Mon, 10.07.17 11:54
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Bjærn Felten!
I read your message from 09.07.2017 22:30

ak>> You can look at your line at

BF> Or you can look at any Fidonet message you like via the
BF> link in my origin line -- you don't even have to register.
BF> I can assure you that all the messages from Nicholas BoЙl
BF> looks just fine here. Unlike most from those that are
BF> complaining...

You mean that you can read his tag line undistorted?

Bye, Bjærn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017

--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Wed, 12.07.17 00:57
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Paul Quinn!
I read your message from 10.07.2017 11:16

PQ> BTW, I have Thunderbird's "Server settings-->Default
PQ> character encoding" option set for 'Unicode UTF-8' on this NNTP
PQ> server and three others.

My NNTP server provides me, besides Fidonews, with many Russian echos.
If I do it as you said I will compose UTF messages, and I know many
people who will complain.

BTW, if I paste into Thunderbird a text from a UTF8 www site Thunderbird
automatically switches itself to UTF. And nobody in Russia (I mean true
fidonet users, not NNTP users) can read such a message. Their soft
doesn't show UTF.

Bye, Paul!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Thu, 13.07.17 13:21
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Bj”rn Felten!
I read your message from 12.07.2017 12:41

ak>> My NNTP server provides me
BF>
BF> There's your problem. Try to upgrade to a properly FTN
BF> programmed NNTP server rather than one from the last century
BF> and you'll see a huge difference. As I said, feel free to
BF> test the one in my origin. It's free and you can use it
BF> anonymously (in read only mode of course).

But do many people have FTN fido software which doesn't support UTF8?
Golded, for instance.

Bye, Bj”rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017

--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Fri, 14.07.17 00:09
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Mark Lewis!
I read your message from 13.07.2017 09:18

ak>> But do many people have FTN fido software which doesn't support
ak>> UTF8? Golded, for instance.

ml> GoldEd(+) can but the real problem is generally in the display
ml> terminals used... especially when, for example, all CP437
ml> characters are not properly cross-mapped to their UTF-8 equivalents
ml> before being sent to the video sub-system for display... the
ml> question is what should be doing the cross-mapping... then there's
ml> the question of the fonts where some only have 256 glyphs and
ml> others may have 512 glyphs which leaves still a huge shortage of
ml> glyphs that may need to be displayed...

IMHO, such a cross mapping cannot solve UTF8 translation on one byte
systems fully. And therefore there is no sense to do it at all. What are
you supposing to see after cross mapping Russian text into CP437?

Bye, Mark!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Sat, 15.07.17 00:27
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Mark Lewis!
I read your message from 14.07.2017 10:13

ak>> IMHO, such a cross mapping cannot solve UTF8 translation on
ak>> one byte systems fully. And therefore there is no sense to
ak>> do it at all. What are you supposing to see after cross
ak>> mapping Russian text into CP437?
ml> you're going the wrong way around... i'm talking specifically
ml> about mapping CP437 characters into UTF-8 for display purposes
ml> on a UTF-8 system... more specifically the box and frame
ml> drawing characters above 127 in the CP437 character table... GoldEd(+)
ml> uses them to draw its own frames and borders so why can't it also do
ml> the same with them when they are in message text??

We talked not about box drawing, but what the owners of GoldEd/cp437
will see when somebody posts messages with Russian lines in UTF8.

AFAIR I said that not everyone is able to see them properly.

Bye, Mark!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Sat, 15.07.17 23:56
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
I read your message from 14.07.2017 23:22

ak>> We talked not about box drawing, but what the owners of
ak>> GoldEd/cp437 will see when somebody posts messages with
ak>> Russian lines in UTF8.
BF> So, have you checked out my NNTP server yet? Have you
BF> noticed the huge difference from the NNTP servers you are used
BF> to when it comes to adhering to our FTN standards? ..

Tell me please about "a huge difference" in few words.
BTW, how do you think - do all people of these area see the third letter
of your name properly? I don't ask about NNTP users.

Bye, Bj?rn!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: Dale Shipp (1:261/1466)
To: All
Date: Sun, 16.07.17 03:22
Re: Prayer about Putin
-=> On 07-15-17 21:56, Alexander Koryagin Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
AK> I read your message from 14.07.2017 23:22

AK> Tell me please about "a huge difference" in few words.
AK> BTW, how do you think - do all people of these area see the third
AK> letter of your name properly? I don't ask about NNTP users.

AK> Bye, Bj?rn!

I do. Plus I have a macro in my editor that inserts the full name


Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:23:39, 16 Jul 2017
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

From: alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
To: All
Date: Sun, 16.07.17 14:14
Re: Prayer about Putin
Hi, Tommi Koivula!
I read your message from 15.07.2017 13:03

ak>>> We talked not about box drawing, but what the owners of
ak>>> GoldEd/cp437 will see when somebody posts messages with Russian
ak>>> lines in UTF8.
BF>> So, have you checked out my NNTP server yet? Have you noticed the
BF>> huge difference from the NNTP servers you are used to when it
BF>> comes to adhering to our FTN standards?

TK> He has an account at my server as well as Paul's. I think he knows.

I tried to test a UTF8 message by sending a UTF8 message from via NNTP
server fidonews.mine.nu

Look at the reply at "test" area.

Bye, Tommi!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2017
--- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
* Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)

From: Joe Delahaye (1:249/303)
To: All
Date: Mon, 17.07.17 18:54
Re: Prayer about Putin
Re: Re: Prayer about Putin


AK> Tell me please about "a huge difference" in few words.
AK> BTW, how do you think - do all people of these area see the third letter
AK> of your name properly? I don't ask about NNTP users.


Sometimes I do and sometimes I dont.


Joe
--- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

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