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From: andrew clarke (3:633/267)
To: All
Date: Sat, 13.02.21 20:16
Real names
13 Feb 21 10:47, you wrote to Dan Clough:

NA> We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail "control"
NA> known as an Elist where one can list a moderator, rules, real names or
NA> not, etc. with a central system but I do not see how its practically
NA> enforceable.

I have no idea whether your real name is Nick Andre. It probably is but I do
not care.

The "real names" policy of some FidoNet echos has always revolved around
elitist gatekeeping nonsense and is completely unenforcable, now more than
ever.

The commercial social media site Twitter has been running for at least 15 years
and does not require real names, despite the pleas of a minority - mostly from
a handful of people who signed up for accounts years after the site began.

Facebook no longer tries to enforce real names in Germany (and perhaps now
worldwide) since courts ruled that Facebook's real name policy violated
Germans' right to privacy.

And there are good reasons not to require real names. Victims of stalking or
domestic violence commonly use aliases online.

Now, presumably we don't want to ban those people from FTSC_PUBLIC or other
FidoNet echos. In which case we accept that pseduonyms are actually acceptable
and don't need to be justified, and so therefore we have no rational
justification for banning mononyms either, because at that point it makes
absolutely no difference what someone's psuedonym is. I suppose all we can ask
is people be consistent, within reason.

And there do happen to be people around the world with a mononym as their legal
name. Two English-speaking people with mononyms that spring to mind are the
magician Teller (of the Penn & Teller duo) and Australian IT journalist
Stilgherrian.

This would've been a problem for them over the years in the unlikely event they
tried to login to any BBS running Maximus, which from memory was hard-coded to
require new users to enter two names to register. I don't think Maximus was
alone there either. A lot of web sites have the same problem. Many of those web
sites also have issues with two character surnames (common in Asia) or the use
of apostrophes (common in Ireland), among other things.

And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm not defending trolls. If people
have a problem with someone's attitude on here, that's a clearly separate
issue.

--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Sat, 13.02.21 23:44
Re: Real names
On 14 Feb 21 05:47:28, Andrew Clarke said the following to All:

AC> I have no idea whether your real name is Nick Andre. It probably is but I d
AC> not care.

Its "real sounding" enough. Smile

AC> The "real names" policy of some FidoNet echos has always revolved around
AC> elitist gatekeeping nonsense and is completely unenforcable, now more than
AC> ever.

More like began as formality back in the day and just stuck as tradition.

Not every Fido echo is real-names only and not every echo is on the Elist...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Vague (1:3603/9999)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 19:09
Re: real names
-=> August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

AA> @MSGID: <602B3D6A.154.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
AA> @REPLY: <60288F10.100.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
AA> Hello Dan Clough!

AA> ** On Saturday 13.02.21 - 19:57, Dan Clough wrote to Wilfred van
AA> Velzen:

DC> ...Persons posting to Fidonet echos are supposed to be
DC> using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a
DC> Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no difference.
DC> They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.

AA> I don't think there is a hard n fast rule that states all of
AA> Fidonet = Real Names, anywhere. It has probably just been a
AA> kind of tradition and expectation over the years.

AA> [1] Where does the assumption that a real name must be both
AA> first name and lastname originate or found in documentation?
AA> Oli seems real to me especially because of [2].

AA> [2] Oli isn't exactly not real. His messages include a point
AA> address. That point address is traceable to the Z2PNT segment
AA> of the nodelist. There his full name is broadcast in all its
AA> glory.

AA> [3] But even your name isn't consistent across other FTNs:

AA> It's Dan Clough for:

AA> Palantir BBS, Pensacola FL USA 1:123/115
AA> Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 21:2/138
AA> Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 77:1/114

AA> But it's Daniel Clough for:

AA> Palantir BBS, Cantonment FL 618:250/24

AA> So, I say give Oli a break and be rest assured that Oli =
AA> Oliver, and we can live with Dan = Daniel. ;)


Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it specifically
allows aliases? Cool.


... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 21:41
Re: real names
On 20 Feb 21 18:09:00, Vague said the following to August Abolins:

V> Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it specifica
V> allows aliases? Cool.

In an Othernet, its mostly cool. In Fido its often tradition to use real-names
or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

V> * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)
^^^^^^^^^
I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 21:55
Re: real names
Re: Re: real names
By: Nick Andre to Vague on Sat Feb 20 2021 20:41:34


V>> * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)
^^^^^^^^^
NA> I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

they did but apparently ""Vague"" hasn't been reading the replies and figured
out how to change the system's originating address in all of his fidonet
message bases' settings in his synchronet setup...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: Vague (1:3603/9999)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 22:14
Re: real names
-=> Nick Andre wrote to Vague <=-

NA> @MSGID: <6031BD66.173.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
NA> @REPLY: <6031991C.172.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
NA> On 20 Feb 21 18:09:00, Vague said the following to August Abolins:

V> Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it
pecifica
V> allows aliases? Cool.

NA> In an Othernet, its mostly cool. In Fido its often tradition to use
NA> real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires
NA> them though.

V> * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

NA> ^^^^^^^^^ I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
NA> this yet?

Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything on
my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I wrote this). Why that is
happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why that would happen, please
let me know.


... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

From: Alan Ianson (1:153/757.2)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 19:34
Re: real names
Re: Re: real names
By: Vague to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 2021 09:14 pm

Va> Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why
Va> that would happen, please let me know.

I have a guess for you if you'd like to look. In scfg..

Message Areas -> Fidonet -> Go into any/all areas -> Network Options

And see what AKA is set there and adjust if needed.

Ttyl Smile,
Al

... It's not the money I want, it's the stuff.
--- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 23:24
Re: real names
On 20 Feb 21 21:14:00, Vague said the following to Nick Andre:

V> Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything
V> my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I wrote this). Why that is
V> happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why that would happen, pleas
V> let me know.

I have no idea, I don't run SBBS but likely something simple in whatever
configures the message areas.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Sat, 20.02.21 23:25
Re: real names
On 21 Feb 21 01:54:20, Maurice Kinal said the following to Nick Andre:

MK> NA> I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
MK> NA> this yet
MK>
MK> If they are really nodelist police, let them show us their badges.

They do in Enet.Sysop...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Dan Clough (1:123/115)
To: All
Date: Sun, 21.02.21 10:05
Re: real names
-=> Vague wrote to Nick Andre <=-

V> * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

NA> ^^^^^^^^^ I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
NA> this yet?

Va> Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally
Va> everything on my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I
Va> wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have
Va> any idea why that would happen, please let me know.

Yeah.... Literally it's because your system is not configured
correctly. It's literally not possible for it to be anything else but
that. Yeah.



... Do you know where you are?
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

From: Vague (1:135/391)
To: All
Date: Sun, 21.02.21 14:48
Re: real names
-=> Alan Ianson wrote to Vague <=-

AI> @MSGID: <6031C7F4.177.fidonet_ftscpubl@20xd6>
AI> @REPLY: <6031C251.176.fidonet_ftscpubl@20xd6>
AI> Re: Re: real names
AI> By: Vague to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 2021 09:14 pm

Va> Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why
Va> that would happen, please let me know.

AI> I have a guess for you if you'd like to look. In scfg..

AI> Message Areas -> Fidonet -> Go into any/all areas -> Network Options

AI> And see what AKA is set there and adjust if needed.

That was is. Each individual area had to be changed independently. Thank you!


... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:135/391)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: All
Date: Mon, 22.02.21 10:39
Re: real names
On 22 Feb 21 09:11:00, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

AA> NA> ..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least
AA> NA> real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.
AA>
AA> PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
AA> use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

Lol, I had to Google PMFJI Razz

Doesn't matter, in practice its all about a real-sounding name as nobody can
prove someone's posted-name is real. We don't check for ID...

Even that doesn't matter to a mod that doesn't like aliases since its
extremely difficult to moderate an echo especially if its peered in a mesh
with many other systems.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

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