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From: Andrew Leary (1:320/119)
To: All
Date: Sat, 28.12.13 11:52
MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
=============================================================================
* Forwarded by Andrew Leary (1:320/119)
* Area : MAKENL_NG (MakeNL Next Generation.Wink
* From : Andrew Leary, 1:320/119 (Saturday December 28 2013 10:42)
* To : Kees van Eeten
* Subj : MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
=============================================================================
@REPLY: 2:280/5003.4 52beb5a6
@MSGID: 1:320/119 52bef2f8
@PID: GED+2 1.1.5-b20130111
@CHRS: CP437 2
@TZUTC: -0500
Hello Kees!

Saturday December 28 2013 12:21, Kees van Eeten wrote to Andrew Leary:

KvE> With almost three months of intensive testing by all involved, I
KvE> think we can expect the first nodelist of 2014 to be distributed with
KvE> the allowunpub enabled, or did I miss something?

That decision is up to the ZCs. I'm all for it. Since it is a top-down
option, it needs to be enabled at the ZC level first, then at the RC level, and
so on. There shouldn't be any problem if a particular Net or Region doesn't
enable it, because the old method of Pvt,-Unpublished- is still acceptable,
even after AllowUnpub is enabled. The only problem will be if a lower level
coordinator enables it before someone above them. In that case, a segment
listing -Unpublished- nodes without the Pvt, keyword would be flagged as an
error or rejected entirely.

Andrew

-+-
+ Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/535-4284 (1:320/119)
=============================================================================

Hello All!

Does anyone see a reason that we cannot enable AllowUnpub for NODELIST.003, to
be released on January 3rd, 2014?

Andrew

---
* Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/535-4284 (1:320/119)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 29.12.13 00:54
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Vince,

VC> > Does anyone see a reason that we cannot enable AllowUnpub for
VC> > NODELIST.003, to be released on January 3rd, 2014?

VC> Please tell me why should we allow unpublisted entries into the nodelist
VC> that contains a listing of all systems that can be accessed by all?

All region-segments in zone-2 are flushed through ERRFLAGS which takes care of
nonsense.

And zone-2 is some 80% of the nodelist ... I know ... I know ... certain people
do not want me to mention that ...

The relevance to me of "AllowUnpub" has the same weight as the discussion about
IPv6 ... it comes from the same corner BTW and was described to me as a life's
necessity with the same dramatics as IPv6.

So far I haven't heard a single good argument to have this parameter activated
...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 29.12.13 05:22
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Kees,

Kv>WD> So far I haven't heard a single good argument to have this parameter
Kv>WD> activated ...

Kv> May I try to make a start.

To me you have always been the voice of reason...

Kv> Recently there was a little dog fight about a
Kv> mail that was sent with the direct/crash bit set. The sender claimed the
Kv> he sent the message, the reiceiver said it was not received.

I'm unaware other that the very recent misbehaviour (again) by Roy.

Kv> The node that flies the Pvt flag is just a IP only node, and the Pvt
Kv> flag apparaently complicates free exchange of messages.

That can be solved with the INA/IBN parameters.

Kv> There are some Hubs in the nodelist that cannot fly the Hub tag because
Kv> they are IP only. The automatic hubrouting for that segment now has to
Kv> be maintained manually.

I provide hub-functions, yet I don't fly the "Hub" keyword.

Kv> There are a number of IP-only hosts that now have weird phonenumbers in
Kv> the phone field, as replacing those numbers with -Unpublised- will now
Kv> require the Pvt tag.

Kv> If you see no need for the allowunpub option, then can we agree that
Kv> normal IP-only nodes use an all zero's entry for the phone number.

The only reason why some of these entries carry zeroes is because they were
initially sneaked-in behind my back and I didn't read the nodelist like a
newspaper. Had I noticed earlier, it would have been stopped in its tracks
immediately. The only reason why they're still there is because I don't want to
inconvenience a sufficiently large number of people.

My take on this is that the problem for which the solution was created, in fact
did not exist. Exactly the same as the IPv6-discussion ... the problem does not
exist there either at this moment.

And now because "AllowUnpub" is there, a problem needs to ne defined so that it
can be deployed ... that, for the moment, still is my perception.

Other than that, it's going to take another 3-4 months to wake-up ZC4 again.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 29.12.13 05:24
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Andrew,

AL>VC> Please tell me why should we allow unpublisted entries into the
AL>VC> nodelist that contains a listing of all systems that can be accessed
AL>VC> by all?

AL> The intended use for this is Internet-only nodes, who will fly
AL> appropriate I?? flags for the protocols they support.

I'm guessing that over 95% of all IP-nodes use a generic binkd to handle their
IP-traffic meaning the flags are of no real issue as they do not affect the
binkd.ctl file.

Am I wrong there?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 29.12.13 13:29
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Ulrich,

US> JoHo documented the PVT handling rules, as he developed FD
US> so its written in the FrontDoor docu

Actually, let's not re-write history.

"I" was the one who permitted those Pvt's to enter the nodelist and in those
days explained how it was to be done in order to accomodate a certain breed of
IP-systems which were left in the cold.

People gave me a lot of flak from all over, certainly R24 and R28 who were very
militant then. the ZC1 at that time was even flatly opposed as he wanted
Fidonet to remain PSTN-only.

My blood still boils when reading that ridiculous statement "My thanks go to
Bob Satti and Ward Dossche - for having the vision to permit and promote the
use of IP - Mailers, Flags and Nodelist entries in their respective zones."

US> JoHo compiled these rules into the routing chapter of FD documentation.

That was Joho's thing, a smaller subset of Fidonet and a software that is not
maintained anymore I believe. He once promised me there'd always be an
up-to-date FD-version current with the latest techniques.

FD BTW is a D'Bridge clone ... if you want to talk to a person who is not
interested in the annointment of his own persona, talk to Nick Andre ...

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Sun, 29.12.13 14:04
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Michiel,

Mv> We are all waiting for you, the other ZCs have already thrown the switch.

Everybody waits for something.

For example, I am waiting for your formal apology for accusing me, behind my
back of course, of delaying netmail for several days.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Janis Kracht (1:261/38)
To: All
Date: Sun, 29.12.13 22:07
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
> Michiel,

>> The only sure way to prevent accidents with older POTS/ISDN mailers is to
>> only use "-Unpublished-" for numbers that must mnever be dialed.

> The only certain way is to not have these entries there in the first place.

See my note in makenl_ng..

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Mon, 30.12.13 02:24
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Michiel,

Mv> The only sure way to prevent accidents with older POTS/ISDN mailers is to
Mv> only use "-Unpublished-" for numbers that must mnever be dialed.

The only certain way is to not have these entries there in the first place.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Mon, 30.12.13 18:56
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Michiel,

Mv> Are you suggesting I remove all IONs from the R28 nodelist segment?

I'm suggesting you should go get a life. Walk a little bit in Schevingen, let
the wind blow and clear your mind.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Joe Delahaye (1:249/303)
To: All
Date: Tue, 31.12.13 11:29
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Re: Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
By: Ward Dossche to Vince Coen on Sat Dec 28 2013 23:54:16

WD> So far I haven't heard a single good argument to have this parameter
WD> activated ...


The discussions we had last year and the zonal requests from Z1 do not count?
Z1 has been looking for a long time for this to happen. Many in your zone as
well, and not just the person you are attributing this to
--- SBBSecho 2.24-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

From: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
To: All
Date: Tue, 31.12.13 16:32
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Michiel,

Mv>AL> At this point, if Internet Only Nodes were removed from the nodelist,
Mv>AL> there would be very little left of FidoNet,

Mv> Of course. It was a rhetorical question.

It was a ridiculous question.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.98
* Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)

From: Benny Pedersen (2:230/0)
To: All
Date: Thu, 27.02.14 05:19
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Hello Ward!

28 Dec 2013 23:54, Ward Dossche wrote to Vince Coen:

WD> All region-segments in zone-2 are flushed through ERRFLAGS which takes
WD> care of nonsense.

does that include modem flags but no phone number to call on ?

000-0.0.0.0 V34

that case Sad

if makenl would not create invalid nodelists in the first place it would have
make it better in the first place


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works Smile

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.13.5-gentoo (i686)Wink
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (2:230/0)

From: Benny Pedersen (2:230/0)
To: All
Date: Thu, 27.02.14 05:22
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Hello Ward!

29 Dec 2013 04:24, Ward Dossche wrote to Andrew Leary:

WD> I'm guessing that over 95% of all IP-nodes use a generic binkd to
WD> handle their IP-traffic meaning the flags are of no real issue as they
WD> do not affect the binkd.ctl file.

WD> Am I wrong there?

basicly no you are on track, but since there is less and less modem nodes left
its time to make a clean up og modem flags that only is used on modems not
binkp

cant errflags not test this ? :=)


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works Smile

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.13.5-gentoo (i686)Wink
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (2:230/0)

From: Benny Pedersen (2:230/0)
To: All
Date: Thu, 27.02.14 05:28
Re: MakeNL v3.4.1 Release
Hello Ward!

30 Dec 2013 17:56, Ward Dossche wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

Mv>> Are you suggesting I remove all IONs from the R28 nodelist segment?
WD> I'm suggesting you should go get a life. Walk a little bit in
WD> Schevingen, let the wind blow and clear your mind.

see a Robin Hood movie while there ? :=)


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works Smile

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.13.5-gentoo (i686)Wink
* Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (2:230/0)

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