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From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 02:37
Nodelist Flags
Guys some info / thoughts please

If I wanted to signal a BBS accepts users on a non standard port for Telnet
or SSH or... what is the best way to show this in a FTN nodelist?

Just looking for your thoughts on how current flags could be used or best way
to introduce new ones without breaking anything for legacy systems using a
nodelist.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 06:03
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 20 12:29:28, Paul Hayton said the following to All:

PH> If I wanted to signal a BBS accepts users on a non standard port for Telnet
PH> or SSH or... what is the best way to show this in a FTN nodelist?

You don't.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 11:03
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 12:29p, Paul Hayton pondered and said...

PH> Thanks for your thoughts.

Thanks for the feedback.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 07:04
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 20 18:45:48, Paul Quinn said the following to Paul Hayton:

PQ> NA> You don't.
PQ>
PQ> I think we should be considering your involvement in another FTN. In a
PQ> non-Fidonet situation you might revert to the older TEL flag. E.g. TEL:232

The original question was about listing BBS connectivity in the nodelist.

The nodelist is for mailers to call other mailers. Not for mailers to call a
BBS to slay the Red Dragon or mooch someone's warez collection.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 11:36
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 05:04a, Nick Andre pondered and said...

NA> The original question was about listing BBS connectivity in the nodelist.
NA>
NA> The nodelist is for mailers to call other mailers. Not for mailers to
NA> call a BBS to slay the Red Dragon or mooch someone's warez collection.

I'm looking for ways to show a non standard telnet port or a ssh port or...
and yes it's for BBS connections.. a U flag could do this I guess.. it's open
for use in the FTSC specs..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 11:53
Re: Nodelist Flags
Hi Paul,

On 2020-05-30 21:30:08, you wrote to Nick Andre:

NA>> The nodelist is for mailers to call other mailers. Not for mailers to
NA>> call a BBS to slay the Red Dragon or mooch someone's warez
NA>> collection.

PH> I'm looking for ways to show a non standard telnet port or a ssh port
or...
PH> and yes it's for BBS connections.. a U flag could do this I guess.. it's
PH> open for use in the FTSC specs..

But that doesn't mean you can put whatever you like in there. It should serve a
purpose to the function of the nodelist. BBS connectivity for users doesn't
qualify.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 07:49
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 20 21:30:08, Paul Hayton said the following to Nick Andre:

PH> I'm looking for ways to show a non standard telnet port or a ssh port or...
PH> and yes it's for BBS connections.. a U flag could do this I guess.. it's op
PH> for use in the FTSC specs..

Okay, I'm very confused now as to how you appear to believe in using the
Fidonet nodelist as some sort of BBS directory for end-users.

Please explain to me logically how you believe this is a good idea?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 12:27
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 05:49a, Nick Andre pondered and said...

NA>
NA> Please explain to me logically how you believe this is a good idea?

im not saying it is, you are incorrectly inferring i am... i was simply asking
for info about what options there were.

thanks again for the info.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 12:44
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 11:40a, Wilfred van Velzen pondered and said...

Wv> PH> and yes it's for BBS connections.. a U flag could do this I guess.. i
Wv> PH> open for use in the FTSC specs..
Wv>
Wv> But that doesn't mean you can put whatever you like in there. It should
Wv> serve a purpose to the function of the nodelist. BBS connectivity for
Wv> users doesn't qualify.

by definition a user flag allows for anything the user wants to define.

clearly at the heart of this discussion / feedback is the function of a
nodelist.. and i am understanding of the position you and others are taking on
this.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 12:44
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 06:45p, Paul Quinn pondered and said...

PQ> I think we should be considering your involvement in another FTN. In a
PQ> non-Fidonet situation you might revert to the older TEL flag. E.g.

thanks yes it's an othernet related question not born out of anything i would
seek to implement in fidonet. i just thought i would ask here.. thanks again.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 13:52
Re: Nodelist Flags
Hi Paul,

On 2020-05-30 22:28:41, you wrote to me:

Wv>> But that doesn't mean you can put whatever you like in there. It
Wv>> should serve a purpose to the function of the nodelist. BBS
Wv>> connectivity for users doesn't qualify.

PH> by definition a user flag allows for anything the user wants to define.

So, userflags like: U,TRUMP_IS_SUCH_A_NICE_MAN would be ok for you?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 11:34
Re: Nodelist Flags
Re: Re: Nodelist Flags
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Paul Hayton on Sat May 30 2020 11:40:05


PH> I'm looking for ways to show a non standard telnet port or a ssh port
PH> or... and yes it's for BBS connections.. a U flag could do this I
PH> guess.. it's open for use in the FTSC specs..

WvV> But that doesn't mean you can put whatever you like in there.

sure it does... to a point... fidonet, however, has been having their eyes
covered, though, by some who insist that all nodelist flags, U or not, are
so-called approved or they will strip them... one day, folks will wake up and
smell the roses and this so-called "approved U flags" nonsense will go out the
window in the same way that folks found/figured out they could connect anywhere
for their mail and didn't have to connect to some NC/NEC's or HUB's system for
anything other than possibly routed netmail...

WvV> It should serve a purpose to the function of the nodelist. BBS
WvV> connectivity for users doesn't qualify.

yeah... so listing (IC issued?Wink fakenets for BBSes with points didn't qualify?
there were also serial numbers of some sort listed in old nodelists... i know
there were other things listed in the U flags, too... hell, i used to list
U,UUCP because my system didn't meet the qualifications for listing as an
official fidonet to internet gateway so i could not list the UUCP flag on the
left of any U flags... listing it as a U flag was quite ok and worked as
desired...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: mark lewis (1:3634/12)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 11:36
Re: Nodelist Flags
Re: Re: Nodelist Flags
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Paul Hayton on Sat May 30 2020 13:33:22


PH>> by definition a user flag allows for anything the user wants to define.

WvV> So, userflags like: U,TRUMP_IS_SUCH_A_NICE_MAN would be ok for you?

according to the spec and long standing existing practise, yes...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

From: Nick Andre (1:229/426)
To: n/a
Date: Sat, 30.05.20 12:11
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 20 20:53:40, Paul Quinn said the following to Nick Andre:

PQ> NA> The original question was about listing BBS connectivity in the
PQ> NA> nodelist.
PQ>
PQ> Nope. FTN, hypothetically.

I do not quote-rant very often as I cannot afford royalties, buuuuuuuuuuut:

"I'm looking for ways to show a non standard telnet port or a ssh port or...
and yes it's for BBS connections.. a U flag could do this I guess.. it's open
for use in the FTSC specs.."

Seems to me BBS connections is different than FTN/mailer connections, no?

Or did I miss that memo on where the term "FTN" now includes "BBS software".

PQ> NA> The nodelist is for mailers to call other mailers. Not for mailers to
PQ> NA> call a BBS to slay the Red Dragon or mooch someone's warez collection.
PQ>
PQ> The Fidonet nodelist, damned right. Cool

Paul H. is more than welcome to do whatever he wants with his own net, but
when listing non-mailer-related stuff in a nodelist entry, it should be
expected that many people will question and take him to task over this.

Doesn't matter if Wilfred flies the U,TRUMP_IS_A_NICE_GUY flag, or if I fly
the U,WILFRED_IS_A_CLOSETED_HOMOSEXUAL flag, the Nodelist Police will complain
and issue fines.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sun, 31.05.20 05:20
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 01:33p, Wilfred van Velzen pondered and said...

Wv> PH> by definition a user flag allows for anything the user wants to defin
Wv>
Wv> So, userflags like: U,TRUMP_IS_SUCH_A_NICE_MAN would be ok for you?

Disappointed to read this because it attempts to politicize a thread where
the intent was to seek understanding about nodelist flags by asking
questions. Beyond this reply I am not going to respond to your line of
questioning if they are going to be framed like this.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sun, 31.05.20 05:20
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 09:18a, mark lewis pondered and said...

ml> quite simply, you don't... the nodelist is for mailers to communicate
ml> with other mailers...

Hi Mark, thanks Smile Yep others have made their thoughts clear on this too.

ml> othernets can, though, make their own flags for things like this... it
ml> isn't really proper for what the nodelist is designed for but it is able
ml> to be done... i wouldn't expect fidonet to do this, though... if it were

ml> CM,INA:blah,U,BBS:2300

ml>
ml> in any case, other FTNs can do what they like for the most part...
ml> that's one of the reasons they came into existance in the first place ;)

Thanks yep agreed and thought as much.

Thanks for the considered reply.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sun, 31.05.20 05:20
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 10:11a, Nick Andre pondered and said...

NA> Paul H. is more than welcome to do whatever he wants with his own net,
NA> but when listing non-mailer-related stuff in a nodelist entry, it should
NA> be expected that many people will question and take him to task over
NA> this.

Yep for the sake of clarity none of my questioning is couched in terms of any
intentions on my end to makes changes to a Fidonet nodelist, it's all fsxNet
focused musings.

Appreciate your replies and info Nick.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sun, 31.05.20 05:20
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 30 May 2020 at 04:26p, Michiel van der Vlist pondered and said...

Mv> You want to advertise your BBS, don't you?

Just looking at what information is acceptable to include in a FTN nodelist
and the flags use to convey it. I've got (I think) a pretty good read on the
thoughts and feelings shared by folks here. Which is what I was after Smile

Thanks for your reply Michiel. Hope this finds you well.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Paul Hayton (3:770/100)
To: n/a
Date: Sun, 31.05.20 05:20
Re: Nodelist Flags
On 31 May 2020 at 09:18a, Paul Quinn pondered and said...

PQ> Damned right. His other favourite FTN doesn't have an equivalent FTSC,
PQ> and the guy just wanted some advice. No dramas.

Cheers ears...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

From: Wilfred van Velzen (2:280/464)
To: n/a
Date: Sun, 31.05.20 12:39
Re: Nodelist Flags
Hi Paul,

On 2020-05-31 15:04:11, you wrote to me:

Wv>> PH> by definition a user flag allows for anything the user wants to
Wv>> defin
Wv>>
Wv>> So, userflags like: U,TRUMP_IS_SUCH_A_NICE_MAN would be ok for you?

PH> Disappointed to read this because it attempts to politicize a thread where
PH> the intent was to seek understanding about nodelist flags by asking
PH> questions. Beyond this reply I am not going to respond to your line of
PH> questioning if they are going to be framed like this.

I wanted to give a controverial example (without making it personal), why you
don't want to allow anything in the userflags. Apparently my example was
controverial enough to make my point...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

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